Developing an ATP Forehand Part 1: The Dynamic Slot

[bottle]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[abrarukhan]

Thanks, Loved it....

Congrats! I attempted what appear to be too much info for some of the people and noticed a dramatic change in my forehand.Now its explosive and so much fun to hit this new "flip" forehand. It require patience......
Thanks, can't wait to see the follow up article.

[DougEng]

Pre-Stretch

For those interested, the notion of pre-stretch of the forearm was probably first brought up by Vic Braden nearly 20 years ago. In observations of Andre Agassi, Braden noted Andre was striking the ball differently from other pros at the time. The swing is more compact and does not drop behind the body as with juniors (Type 1). As many noted, Andre's strokes were very compact and based around the acceleration of the lower arm. As Julian compared, yes, the squash swing (as analyzed by Elliott et al) also involved a pre-stretch a bit like the golf swing. I mentioned this to Vic Braden and others about 11 years ago and he agreed. In the most powerful swings, the elbow almost leads the forearm much like a baseball pitch, football pass, squash swing or golf swing. I started teaching this forehand regularly about 7-8 years ago when Federer was coming up. I found even beginners can somewhat use the technique to increase their speed (but we are talking relative speeds). Using underload techniques help (there are a few tricks).

Ironic was that about 25 years ago or so, a coach of mine (he was well ahead of his time!) showed me to use this technique and open stances. I was also using a extreme eastern (or western) grip on the one-handed backhand for high balls to add topspin. Then a friend (another eventual master pro) told me I shouldn't do that. So I was re-taught to slice on the high backhand. Probably a mistake. But I re-picked up on the western one-hander about 9 years ago again (e.g, after Gulga and the young Gasquet).

As Brian points out, it's an advanced swing to deal with pace and spin (heaviness). Juniors naturally are gross-motor inclined and are taught first to make a C swing. or those of us who coach good kids, many of them actually swing not back anymore but rather open the racquet face when they extend the wrist at the top of the swing (that is some call wrist cocking). Juniors in the 1980s and 1990s often extended the wrist at the end of the backswing (allowing the racquet to get behind as in Type 1) but today many extend the wrist at the highest point of the backswing (in the vertical position) which leaves the racquet face open. I think it is the weak core, weak arm strength and relative hypermobility which force many juniors to try to compensate and create a larger C swing.

Also as Brian points out, the women's game is less heavy. A more classic swing is easier to do in the women's game as the contact point is often lower. A good case of evolution is Christina McHale who had a huge loop (almost Type 1) as a junior player. She evolved to shortening the backswing from juniors to WTA since the ball is coming faster. Rather than backswing speed, she relies more on core and strength to create her pace now. Evolution and adaptations to garner success.

Possibly the next step on the WTA would be the pre-stretched slot as on the ATP Tour. Justine Henin was the first WTA player to play with a vertical game. Sam Stosur is similar with her heaviness of the ball. Otherwise the less heavy ball is the reason the women can use more of a classic C. Also note the WTA players are more grounded on their strokes. Many do not leave the ground as readily as the ATP pros (as many of them are relatively tall/big). WTA pros adapt their game to their physiology: relatively stronger lower bodies. So they prefer to use the ground and lower body. Therefore they hit at lower contact points with flatter shots. The men's game is more vertical in terms of spin, contact points and ability to leave the ground.

Anyhow...all good stuff!

Best,
Doug

[DougEng]

The match!

As usual another great research to unearth the secrets of an effective ATP forehand.

This past February, 2012, I was in Orlando, USA, where I attended the PTR International Tennis Symposium. Great presentations were held on topics ranging from Tennis10 to Elite Juniors to Professional tennis, and on a personal note in the 60+ Singles Championships in the semi-final, I survived handful of match points and beat the ever green Ken DeHart, the PTR and USPTA Master Professional, in three sets. I will never forget this match and I am sure Ken will remember this as well. In one of the match points that he had in the second set tiebreak, he hit a real wide serve to my BH and closed in for a volley. In fact, his wide serve almost crashed me to the left side fence; my BH return was a weak cross-court and he was up there at the net with a volley which he had not missed so far in the match. Sensing the end of the match I ran towards him to shake his hand but I think he thought I was trying to cover his BH volley which he was set to hit down the line; he rushed and hit his volley into a court side water-cooler. I managed to win the tiebreak 10-8 and then the third set. This match was the talk of the Symposium.

Tennis provides you with many golden moments both for the coaches, players at all levels. During my 40 years of tennis playing and coaching I came across so many teaching systems but let me tell you that it is so easy to learn from these super slow motion videos that John uploads for us.

The ATP Forehand has it all. My daughter Sarah Khan is on an Athletic Scholarship to one of the U.S. Universities. She is on vacation right now. I called her to view this article so that she learns. I wish the new generation of players will realize the importance and effectiveness of mental imagery that one gets through these videos.

If you are a player trying to achieve excellence or a coach trying to learn new teaching techniques you don't need to go anywhere else. Everything is here and I congratulate John Yandell for his outstanding work.

Thank you John, keep up the good work.

Mahboob Khan
MKTA, Islamabad Club
Islamabad, Pakistan.

Sorry Mahboob, I missed the match! I'll call and bug Ken about hitting the water cooler.

[bottle]

Written Before Doug Eng's Two Entries Here

Factual re-hash of the article won't do it. One needs to take the findings out on the court in one's mind or out on a real court but preferably both. Only then can one fully own the information and keep the process from becoming dead and metallic and automatic. Even then, one will need to draw on one's own background and experience, to take what one wants, to know one's own mind, and to look for a bit of magic.

I've been working on a Type 2 forehand, e.g., a straight arm, gravity-abetted monstrosity (monstrous since I am tall) right out of one of my favorite tennis books of all time, MASTERING YOUR TENNIS STROKES, the place where one can best experience the great topspin forehand of Tiny Tom Okker.

Okker, an unusually articulate fellow, himself warns that this stroke is only for when you have extra time. Most often he would hit a shortened version much closer to what most of us know.

Will I abandon this shot, sort of like Kid Gavilan's bolo punch, with its different sounding clink now that I have determined-- again-- to shorten my two main groundstrokes? Of course not. But will I use it sparingly? Of course.

I'm always looking for personal application, not the overly generalized schemes of tennis discourse. From the posts I've read so far, one usually can't tell if the author has even made his first armed trip to any tennis court. Factual rehash, factual rehash-- it really sucks.

The most interesting aspect of this article for a reader such as myself, beyond all the solid research and the memorization of precise racket positions it advises, is the pre-load principle or stretch-shorten cycle-- something that one can take away as one's own and proceed with.

I just haven't noticed very many people doing this and would like to remark on the following instances of scapulation.

Forehand: Scapular adduction, scapular retraction, scapular adduction (to contact). Backhand: Scapular retraction, scapular adduction, scapular retraction. This, in shorter strokes, is deliberate objectification and lengthening of something we did in a more desultory way before.

Similarly in serve whether shortened or not, one can improve the whole banana through stressing scapular adduction, scapular retraction and scapular adduction same as in a forehand-- which will or would be a new sequence for most people to think about for sure.

[GeoffWilliams]

Do you know those Geico commercials where they give people "car insurance taste tests?" That's the level we are at now. A red liquid in a plastic sample cup, is not a level III atp pro fh. You could go out, and load diagonally, do a correct unit turn, defend your contact point according the incoming shots' height/speed/spin, and still not hit a good shot if you did not rotate your core at all or rotate quickly enough. A quicker core rotation adds to the snap back speed, and is the last thing to master behind the unit turn-contact pt. defense-technical form. Without the last tool applied, the shot will still suck and the snap back will be slow. And that's the one thing that differentiates the great from the excellent, that last element of a very quick core. The snap back fh is all about a fast core, a fast snap back, a fast move from pronation (closed-facing back) to supination (open-facing contact point), like a sideways serve.

The one thing all the top three have in common besides the unit turn, is they load diagonally and point the frame backwards with a straight arm, and the hitting side of the frame is facing the back fence or the ground, to create the voltage/pressure required for a snap back shot, there has to be space to snap into.

When you see a common rec. player, with no coil on serve, he will also have no coil on fh or bh or volley either. No coil=rec. player who does not know how to coil, or someone who does know and cannot.

It's that 1/10/sec. that makes the good great.

How many karate black belt students have you seen, with the belt, with the form, and who cannot defend themselves on the street at all? Grandma black belts are common, due to the school's need to survive. Same in tennis, with tons of pros teaching people strokes, and those people cannot win a single tournament match under pressure.

[don_budge]

Dear Brian...

As I manically try to resurrect my golf swing my appreciation for technique in all things grows exponentially. Why do we search for the "Holy Grail"? Fortunately I have met up with a competent, analytical and perceptive young golf pro who has taken on this project of mine gratis...that is without payment. My current livelihood would certainly hinder me from having the expertise of a competent professional to help me build my swing from scratch. There is a God afterall.

I would dearly love to see you hook up all of your gadgets and gizmos to this young man Andreas because as I watch him pound 4 iron after 4 iron into the stratosphere it would be some wonder to see it quantified in numbers. No mishits. Just like ATP forehands.

I can well appreciate and admire the amount of work and tremendous dedication and love for the game that you and your partner have put into developing your BEST system. I have attempted to read your article a second time and there is nothing to dispute...technically speaking.

It is a little uncanny how much of what you are "exploring" in your research and subsequent articles resembles some of the work and research that have been applied and discovered in the world of golf. I suspect that in some respects scientific analysis of tennis swings has lagged behind the research and development of such analysis in the golf swing. But even with all of the modern gizmos and gadgets somehow I find Ben Hogan's Five Fundamental Lessons to be the standard still. You know...one of the more peculiar things that I have been known to say in my small world is this: I have learned more about the tennis swing from playing, studying and teaching golf than I ever did from playing tennis. Tennis is golf on the run.

That being said...the amount of work and preparation that you have done with your first part of your series is very impressive.

[julian1]

Golf vs tennis

do you know what are biomechanical differences between tennis and golf?
Do you read Rod Cross?

[tennis_chiro]

From Hogan to don_budge

As I manically try to resurrect my golf swing my appreciation for technique in all things grows exponentially. Why do we search for the "Holy Grail"? Fortunately I have met up with a competent, analytical and perceptive young golf pro who has taken on this project of mine gratis...that is without payment. My current livelihood would certainly hinder me from having the expertise of a competent professional to help me build my swing from scratch. There is a God afterall.

I would dearly love to see you hook up all of your gadgets and gizmos to this young man Andreas because as I watch him pound 4 iron after 4 iron into the stratosphere it would be some wonder to see it quantified in numbers. No mishits. Just like ATP forehands.

I can well appreciate and admire the amount of work and tremendous dedication and love for the game that you and your partner have put into developing your BEST system. I have attempted to read your article a second time and there is nothing to dispute...technically speaking.

It is a little uncanny how much of what you are "exploring" in your research and subsequent articles resembles some of the work and research that have been applied and discovered in the world of golf. I suspect that in some respects scientific analysis of tennis swings has lagged behind the research and development of such analysis in the golf swing. But even with all of the modern gizmos and gadgets somehow I find Ben Hogan's Five Fundamental Lessons to be the standard still. You know...one of the more peculiar things that I have been known to say in my small world is this: I have learned more about the tennis swing from playing, studying and teaching golf than I ever did from playing tennis. Tennis is golf on the run.

That being said...the amount of work and preparation that you have done with your first part of your series is very impressive.

Hogan and "the forehand slot"

I couldn't let your post about working on your golf swing and the forehand "slot" go by. I was at the driving range yesterday and as the pro was hitting next to me, I had to ask him if there was anything in golf's teaching systems about the "stretch reflex" or the "stretch-shorten cycle" that occurs at the top of the backswing.

And indeed there was. It turns out it was kind of a major topic way before it became something we talked about in tennis (at least that I was aware of). I'd always understood that one of the big differences between pro golfers and the rest of us was the degree to which they could delay the firing of the wrists as the club approaches contact on the downswing. But about Hogan…

When you see slow motion of Hogan's swing you will see that the hands stay in front of the club all the way through impact (closer to the target than the clubhead). We've all heard that Hogan basically dug his swing out of the ground by hitting so many balls that his swing had a "slot"; but not because of any particularly great mechanics of his swing as he advocated in his "Five Lessons". (I like that book as well and I thought the principles there made a lot of sense.) But I had seen the claims by Bob Pritchard on Somax.com that one of the reasons, if not the reason, that Hogan got the yips was because of the damage done to his forearm muscles (one of the noticeable features of the cover of Five Lessons is the image of Hogan's forearms) from fighting the momentum and inertia of the club head as he tried to maintain that position with his club shaft below the straight line from shoulders to ball. I found Pritchard's ideas helpful with my own golf swing.

So there I am thinking Hogan's swing was old school like the forehand followthroughs we taught with the racket finishing pointing to the opposite side of the court (and I still do at the initial stages of development to get the student to learn to hit through the ball), but…

Dennis, the golf pro, explains to me that he recently saw a great video side by side of Hogan's swing with none other than Jason Duffner who has emerged from nowhere to win twice in the last couple of months on the PGA tour and finish second last weekend. Well, Jason is an exact duplicate of Hogan's swing. EXACT.

So maybe old school isn't dead yet. And golf does have a lot more information about the "stretch-shorten cycle". But it is important to note, one of the distinguishing features of Hogan's swing is the way the left wrist led the way through impact without the right hand taking over and flexing forward like most of us lesser hackers, and… very much the way Federer maintains the racket through the impact zone on the line to the target much more than anyone else without flexing the wrist forward until later (I believe according to JY's work).

This is the thing that I am a little nervous about with the "flip". You should flip at the start of the forward motion, but I'm sure Brian will explain in his next article that the wrist does not flex forward (or at least does so to a minimal and controlling degree) through the contact zone. I hope I don't end up with egg on my face with this one, but it wouldn't be the first time…

But it is kind of neat: Forehand slot to stretch-shorten reflex to Hogan to Duffner to don_budge. The flashlight image (see video here: http://www.ezwaygolf.com/swingtrainer.html but you can get the original here: http://www.golfinjurydoctors.com/gissite/products.html) is one of the classic ones for correcting a golf swing and now for the tennis forehand as well! However, the actual beam of the flashlight doesn't quite work as well on the tennis court.

don

[klacr]

Dynamic Slot at USPTA Florida Convention

I have the pleasure and privilege to attend the USPTA Florida Division Convention this week.
One of the speakers on Thursday was Rick Macci. His presentation was mostly about this "Dynamic Slot" on both the forehand and backhand. He gave Brian Gordon all the credit and was very excited to share with us what was discovered. Having read Brian Gordon's article earlier, I felt I definitely was ahead of the game and more in tune with what he was explaining and elaborating on. Rick Macci had this ability, as a good teacher, to simplify it even more to his audience. Looking forward to more articles from Brian and Rick.

With that being said, I complimented Rick, Brian, and tennisplayer.net on Twitter. Then, one of our beloved nay sayers replied to me...(I won't give out his name, as I'm sure the regular contributors to the forum can take an educated guess). According to his reply, Federer, Nadal, Berdych, and just about everyone else that plays on ATP and WTA tour has a terrible forehand. I'm gonna keep this post positive and simply say that I found it amusing. Although I'm confident in my abilities as a teacher, I guess I'm not confident enough in my abilities to disregard video, science, biomechanics, a 16 time grand slam champion, and other highly qualified tennis teaching professionals. etc. But thats just me.

Whether all of you are right or completely wrong, insane, and totally crazy...I just wanted to say I appreciate the hard work and sharing of knowledge from Brian Gordon, Rick Macci, John Yandell, all the contributors of the forum who share their two cents. Tennisplayer.net is a great website that is only made better by all our contributions. I love learning. Thank you. Keep it up.

Sincerely,

Kyle LaCroix USPTA

[bowt]

hey when I conceptualize doing this

is it reaching the hitting arm position later in the forward swing

so you get a sling shot effect?

and reaching the dynamic slot that yandell explains

[julian1]

stretch-shortening cycle

http://billnordt.com/MUSCLEANDJOINTFUNCTION/stretchshorteningresearcharticle.pdf

The important quote
"The time lag between the onset of EMG and onset of force increase is 10-12 ms (Nicol and
Komi, 1998)."

[julian1]

The vertical speed before the contact

Congratulations to Brian on a terrific article! Very significant work.

The slot and stretch-shorten (contract) movement is paramount. Many good coaches are teaching this which develops maximal acceleration. Many children often develop fuller motions due to weaker core, shoulder and less ability to take higher velocities in the arm. But it is trainable and requires physiological adaptations (e.g, increasing strength of shoulder stabilizers and higher bone density).

Juniors often also open the racquet face at the top of the helicopter swing. Rick Macci also encourages "pat the dog" which closes the face and gets the racquet aligned into the slot properly. Players are taught to make a C swing which is primarily involves the larger muscles but the best forehands in the world are often more of a boot-shaped swing. Imagine a boot with the toe box facing down. The racquet path goes around the back of the boot and over the heel and then an extra drop at the toe box. Federer and Djokovic clearly use this. Some players also use it but slightly more to the side than back (hence the box box is farther forward) such as Del Potro.

However, there are other players even at the ATP level who use closer to a Type II swing. For example, Lleyton Hewitt. Perhaps those players have less offense.

Interestingly the backhand corresponding technique to Type 3 include the more compact U swing with neutral wrist positions but the laid back (extended) wrist on the upper hand (or left hand for the righty). And also sometimes the wrist-breaking position with right hand (not all the time). Many WTA players use the large arc (using the hand and arm rotation and swinging closer to the body at contact) to generate a Type 2 like backhand. The men's U-like swing has a similar movement but the stretching is not only in the left arm (s-s cycle) but the upper right arm (triceps).

Best,
Doug

Comparison of trajectories for the atp forehand and the classic forehand shows that the vertical component of the racket head speed just before the contact is much higher for the atp forehand.
Please see as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nt2g3EgSmk&t=1m54s

time 0:18/2:10

[DougEng]

Maybe...not quite

Yes, the Y-component of racquet head velocity must be greater than typical if topspin is greater. Just classical physics. I would say the video is not quite an ATP tour quality swing (i.e, true dynamic slot).

Comparison of trajectories for the atp forehand and the classic forehand shows that the vertical component of the racket head speed just before the contact is much higher for the atp forehand.
Please see as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nt2g3EgSmk&t=1m54s

time 0:18/2:10

[DougEng]

Maybe...but that is the Achilles tendon

Yes but that research was regarding SSC for gait analysis specifically slow
dorsiflexion. It may be likely that it is shorter for SSC in the arm near the elbow in the forehand (or the serve!) dynamic slot.

http://billnordt.com/MUSCLEANDJOINTF...rcharticle.pdf

The important quote
"The time lag between the onset of EMG and onset of force increase is 10-12 ms (Nicol and
Komi, 1998)."