Developing an ATP Forehand Part 1: The Dynamic Slot

[bottle]

As I do this stuff, I'm finding that I need to send off an early executive command to start the forward arm motion whatever it is. ("Start the wiper NOW! Start the hinge NOW! Start hurling twist of upper arm NOW!" Etc., etc.) So in that sense, I'm not sure about the conventional wisdom of leading with the gross body any more. I start the arm first and then it gets swamped, drowned, overwhelmed. The total motion despite the conflict goes away from the net. People should re-read THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA just for its arm-wrestling scene. That will help them to understand that physiology not just strength and psychology is involved.

Ironically, if your arm is trying to go forward as it goes backward, it will retreat more slowly, which will result, in tennis, in body leading the arm before you hit the ball, just with more of a build-up.

[tennis_chiro]

Too many grey hairs!

P.S. You can call me Larry, even though that is not my name.

Sorry, I got confused with another poster and now I'm not sure who that was.

don

[10splayer]

As I do this stuff, I'm finding that I need to send off an early executive command to start the forward arm motion whatever it is. ("Start the wiper NOW! Start the hinge NOW! Start hurling twist of upper arm NOW!" Etc., etc.) So in that sense, I'm not sure about the conventional wisdom of leading with the gross body any more. I start the arm first and then it gets swamped, drowned, overwhelmed. The total motion despite the conflict goes away from the net. People should re-read THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA just for its arm-wrestling scene. That will help them to understand that physiology not just strength and psychology is involved.

Ironically, if your arm is trying to go forward as it goes backward, it will retreat more slowly, which will result, in tennis, in body leading the arm before you hit the ball, just with more of a build-up.

Bottle, are you saying that you don't subscribe to a kinetic chain theory, with transfer from core out to the periphery? Or am I misunderstanding you. Can't read, so The Old Man and the Sea is not an option.

[spacediver]

i've been waiting for brian gordon to resurface, and am very excited about this. I cannot wait for the biomechanical explication of this overview article.

A comment:

I understand the principle explained in the article - that setting up the correct configuration during backswing is critical to optimizing the subsequent series of movements, in particular the motion dependent torques, stretch shorten, etc.

However, and I think I'm probably the only one who has this problem, I cannot for the life of me figure out what is meant by:

"At the conclusion of the descending portion of the loop note the elbow is still elevated, the hand is to the hitting side of the elbow, and the racquet head is above, and to the hitting side of, the hand. The hitting arm and racquet are on a slight diagonal to the shoulder."

I gather that this terminology is probably standard in coaching circles, but I'm having difficulty visualizing what is meant. I'm assuming that "hitting side" roughly equates to "in front of", or in the zone between the body part in question and where the ball is.

So what would it mean to have the hand in the hitting side of the elbow? Does this mean that the wrist is flexed, so that the palm is in front of the elbow (and if it were hyperextended it would be behind, or on the non-hitting side of the elbow)?

[spacediver]

As I do this stuff, I'm finding that I need to send off an early executive command to start the forward arm motion whatever it is. ("Start the wiper NOW! Start the hinge NOW! Start hurling twist of upper arm NOW!" Etc., etc.) So in that sense, I'm not sure about the conventional wisdom of leading with the gross body any more.

I don't think executive control and kinetic chains are mutually exclusive. The story is probably quite a bit more complex.

[bottle]

Yeah, I agree. But 10splayer can be exempted from reading THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA. He only needs to arm-wrestle with somebody who is 20 times stronger than he. Then, although 10splayer is pressing with all of his might yet his arm keeps going down, he can try for a surge of kinetic chain that starts with push down of back foot against the tavern floor.

[10splayer]

Yeah, I agree. But 10splayer can be exempted from reading THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA. He only needs to arm-wrestle with somebody who is 20 times stronger than he. Then, although 10splayer is pressing with all of his might yet his arm keeps going down, he can try for a surge of kinetic chain that starts with push down of back foot against the tavern floor.

First you send me to the library, then you dare me to challenge the manhood of an enormous man. What are you trying to do to me Bottle?

[bottle]

One good forehand. That's all I ask.

[10splayer]

One good forehand. That's all I ask.

For you?

[bottle]

No, you! I wish to communicate, see if these ideas work for another human being.

[GeoffWilliams]

They only work if you have the guts to change what you've been doing. As a mid 50yr old, I can tell you, that is not easy. Even a simple thing like coiling diagonally, or unleashing faster, or pointing at the ball with your non dom. arm, is difficult. One thing I do to engram a new habit is shadow swinging with my frames as I walk the dog every day, and count to 90 times for a given change, and then do it again/----- ---\

Sadly, the last 5 tournaments I entered, I got hurt at work shortly before, and then played anyway, rolled ankle, hurt knee, pulled calf x 3, and that has jinxed me. Hate to lose to pushers I would have crushed with full mobility. Where is my injury article, John? Joints are different than soft tissue injuries. Ice, heat, massage, wraps, I've done it all trying to prep for matches with various injuries: elbow, shoulder, wrist, calf, knee, rotator, neck, ankle, achilles, etc.

[10splayer]

No, you! I wish to communicate, see if these ideas work for another human being.

Mine is more then fine, and we'll just leave it at that. Like you, (as per my original post) just sharing some thoughts on how I hit the forehand, and what I attempt to relay to students.

Anyway, Ill stand by original thoughts, which are that working against the ground (pushing/loading) occurs first in the process. Not at the end, as in your arm wrestling analogy.

And that, turning into the line of the shot occurs before the racquet is pulled and released. Stretch reflex is based on this, the body begins to turn, while the arm lags.

[bottle]

Humbug!

If your forehand was as good as the one I want for you, I would have seen it on the Tennis Channel.

As for precious sequence, that's what it is: precious. If you're going to counter movements as the article suggests you'd better decide to do so right now, and that's before you clothe yourself in a kinetic chain.

As for the kinetic chain we all use (even I who hate this distracting Descartian way of speaking), remember one thing. The ankle bone's connected to the shin bone. The shin bone's connected to the knee bone. The knee bone's connected to the thigh bone. Etc., etc. Now hear the Word of the Lord!

Change isn't hard at all, Mr. Williams, if you practice doing it every day. May not make you a great tennis player (all that de-chunking) but it's fun.

[julian1]

Elastic Energy by Bruce Elliot

Julian,

I did not receive an email, atp_tour@hotmail.com. If you could send it again that would be great, it might have gotten caught up in my junk mail by accident.

Brian,

Thanks for the long response in regards to the questions that people have, I think we're all looking forward to reading more about the analysis in part 2.

You may find the presentation below interesting

http://www.itfcoaching.com/elastic-energy-in-tennis/player.html

[julian1]

Forehand in squash

Journal of Sports Sciences
Volume 14, Issue 2, 1996
Special Issue:
The role of upper limb segment rotations in the development of racket‐head speed in the squash forehand
The role of upper limb segment rotations in the development of racket‐head speed in the squash forehand
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DOI:
10.1080/02640419608727697

Bruce Elliotta, Robert Marshallb & Guillermo Noffala

pages 159-165
Available online: 15 May 2007
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Abstract

In the squash forehand drive, the contribution that each of the upper limb segment's anatomical rotations make to racket‐head velocity towards the front wall (x‐direction) during the forward swing and at impact were calculated. Eight squash players (3 females, 5 males) capable of hitting a high‐performance squash forehand drive were filmed at a nominal rate of 300 Hz by two phase‐locked Photosonics cameras. The three‐dimensional displacement histories of 12 selected landmarks were then calculated using the direct linear transformation approach and three‐dimensional individual segment rotations were calculated using vector equations. Internal rotation of the upper arm at the shoulder joint (46.1%), hand flexion at the wrist joint (18.2%) and forearm pronation at the radio‐ulnar joint (12.0%) were the major contributors to the mean 30.8 m s‐1 x‐direction velocity of the centre of the racket‐head at impact. Pronation of the forearm at the radio‐ulnar joint and extension at the elbow joint both played a significant role in generating racket velocity in the period prior to impact.