Tweet
Originally posted by holyhobo
View Post
-
Awesome move. -
I have to back up what Jason says..I am not sure how this differs from Heath Waters' breakthrough on the "millenium forehand" 6-7 years ago, except it is much wordier and harder to understand. No new information as far as I can see.
This model of the forehand does work for high level players, but the real question is: When do you start teaching it to kids? I messed around with it but realized it doesn't really work to teach 10 year olds to sling their wrist at the ball.Comment
-
Greetings All-
Sorry I'm late to the party but I was finishing some R & R "back home in Indiana". Now that I'm back in S FL I'll chime in a bit.
First thanks to all for the nice comments and commentary. I've enjoyed reading them and find they are a microcosm of what I've heard since I broke this out at least for the last couple years.
The rationale for the early pieces in this series was to present a non-technical overview of my understanding of the technique. I'm very aware people have been teaching their impression of what the ATP players do (as I did) for quite some time. In analyzing my own teaching and watching and talking to many others it became clear that the mechanics behind what we see on TV are not that well understood (or at least it was not by me). Some, like Heath to his credit, and some others have raised the bar of understanding by addressing it terms of their understanding of the neuro-muscular system and the motions. Yet I have always felt the picture was far from complete so I've worked (having rather fancy toys) to connect the dots.
My reading of the commentary here indicates (to me) a few main themes: preparing the body physically, the implication of the loop and body rotation, and difference between male and females.
Absolutely preparing the body, and especially the shoulder joint, is critical as we are asking more of it in a type 3 swing - however, the "danger zones" have not been addressed in this first article - they will be in future installments.
Body rotation sequencing and the associated leg drive is critical to the force that creates the dynamic slot and I tried to point that out - perhaps it did not come through. I specifically look at timing and precise speeds of pelvis and upper trunk rotation as a matter of course. The fact is however that the force applied to the grip is applied by the hand. So the the relationship between trunk rotation AND arm motion is the focus of my approach. The main implication of the trunk motion is how it dictates and/or assists the arm/hand in generating the force on the racquet.
The loop, and particularly the transition from the backswing to the forward swing, is important and the major point of breakdown. For example, it is a show stopper if the downward motion of the hand occurs by dropping the entire arm from the shoulder joint, rather than keeping the elbow elevated while simply extending it. The motion of the hand exiting the loop (the transition) provides rhythm but mostly makes it easier to initiate the hand force at the outset of the forward swing. The racquet speed implications of the loop (and gravity) are minimal relative to the dynamics imposed by the hand force and associated slot - this is the entire point of the type 3 swing.
The point of teaching this type of swing is to make each individual as efficient as possible given THEIR state of strength and skill - therefore I don't spend a lot of time comparing males versus females etc. Obviously there are physical differences between the two but for any given individual the goal is to teach them to use their body in the best way given the demands of the sport and where they want to go. Some people frankly should not do it at all - the helicopter is probably better.
Admittedly, it can be tougher to teach this to some girls but not because they aren't capable, rather because they tend to be more deeply entrenched in the type 1 extreme. With work, however, I've found that my girls become relatively better at it than my boys - though often I feel like a dentist pulling teeth.
Type 3 generally evolves, in my view, in male players out of necessity due to the heaviness of the game. The body starts with range of motion and progressively transitions to more efficient methods - adapt or perish. I know this was the case for me - I use a type 3 swing and have no idea where it came from - it was not taught to me and it was certainly not how I did it when I was young.
Type 3 has not fully evolved in the women's game, in my view, because to date the heaviness of the game has not mandated it - although it is getting there fast - and several pro players are now obviously between a type 2 and type 3 - Sam is clearly in the type 3 realm but with a couple of important flaws.
To conclude, I'll check back occasionally to see where all of this is heading. I wanted to do this series (except for the work involved and the fights with John - kidding) because I do see a lot of people teaching their impression of the type 3 swing. Given that, the intricacies of the approach need to be understood in full or a well meaning person will do far more harm (developmental, not physical) than good. Further, deeper understanding will lead to more innovative approaches and far more targeted training protocols.
It is really MUCH deeper than I'll be going into in my first pieces, so for those sick individuals such as myself, you will want to hang around for the later pieces - but for now on to part 2 - then you can hear it from Rick.Comment
-
Brian, please let us know what Sam,s "couple of flaws" are that are keeping her from a full fledged Type 3 fh. Sometimes, it is a great learning tool when flaws are pointed out.Comment
-
I call it the "snap back."Comment
-
Groundbreaking analysis.
This series of articles on the forehand is destined as a classic, joining your work on the serve.
Great work!
Thank you Brian.
And thank you John for giving us the site to see this work.Comment
-
How exciting!Comment
-
Hmmmmm.....
One more example (beautifully explained)
of mind over muscle.
Nice work, guys!Comment
-
"Beautifully explained"...make a note Dr. Gordon...Comment
-
E-mail
I hope my E-mail reached youOriginally posted by jasonfrausto View PostJohn,
Thanks for the response. I'm really looking forward to part 2 of the article and I'm glad that this subject is being covered with further depth and statistical analysis to bring validity to the importance of hitting the forehand this way.
What I'm really interested in is the statistical data differences, the checkpoints I've taught and was aware of in making the stroke work in this way, but hard numbers help to get the kids to understand the benefits of doing this versus what they might be comfortable with. I love statistics so hopefully we'll get plenty of hard data in part 2 or 3!
I remodeled my forehand after learning from Heath through his site, so I can attest to the difference it makes, and it's great to get analysis like this on tennisplayer to lead people in the right direction to developing their game.
How many parts will this consist of?Comment
-
One more part to go. Think you will find significant differences though with Heath. According to Brian's work the stretch cycle component doesn't involve the wrist and the use of the muscles controlling the wrist aren't flexing, in fact the opposite. But I'll let him explain that.Comment
-
Come on Brian! It's a little hard to read. Does not roll off the mind/tongue.Comment
-
What do you mean? Science and literature have reached a new synthesis.Comment
-
Julian,Originally posted by julian1 View Post
I did not receive an email, atp_tour@hotmail.com. If you could send it again that would be great, it might have gotten caught up in my junk mail by accident.
Brian,
Thanks for the long response in regards to the questions that people have, I think we're all looking forward to reading more about the analysis in part 2.Comment
-
Let me say how much I appreciate your wonderful web magazine,
TennisPlayer.net. I have been a member since your first issue and I
never fail to find something informative and useful in each and every
issue. As a high school tennis coach I have found that my players
greatly benefit from the videos and articles that I show them.
By the way, the article by Brian Gordon, "Developing an ATP
forehand." is fantastic. He helps break down the "dynamic slot" in a
way that is very easy to understand. Thanks for publishing it.Comment
Comment