The Pro Return: Part2: Extreme Grips

[johnyandell]

Love to hear what people thought about "The Pro Return: Part2: Extreme Grips"

[megaten]

I just joined and since I was told by my pro to use a semi western grip I am interested but don't know what grip I use now since the terms are all so complicated or what I must do on the return

[GeoffWilliams]

The points you make are clear: stick hand out from the body, pivot step, less turn on core and the comparisons are those I would have made. Another logical, clear, concise article. I would do this on all types of shots, compare those top pros, even on volleys, overheads, serves, etc. But it's not just about science, it's about will power, emotion, grunting, momentum shifts, tactical adjustments, supplements during change overs, intensity, desire, changes they made to adjust to each other. Non science is what drives them underneath stroke production. Things we can't bottle, or sell, or compare without real underlying feel/see/do.

[privas]

Thanks!

These two articles have made me much more conscious of what I am doing on the practice courts with my return of serve. Thanks John for your excellent work!

I prefer my two-handed backhand these days over my one-hander, mainly because I can more easily keep an extreme grip on my bottom hand, ready to hit the forehand return. My top hand is already in position to hit the two-hander. It's only a matter of making the grip change with the bottom hand if I have to return with a two-hander. Making the torso shift also helps close the racquet face if my grip change isn't fast enough. This overall posture helps me take the ball on the rise on both wings, but I must step in close to the baseline. Novak is the perfect role model for the return of serve. At 5' 7" I am too short to return like Federer, as it seems height is a key element for flatter grips.

--Pedro

[wookash]

Great Article

John,
Great article. Thanks for including the split step portion. That is so key to starting the timing. Ive been practicing with your tips and my return has improved drastically. Thank you!!!! Im applying much more pressure to my opponents on their service games.

The cross over reach step has been exceptionally critical to achieving greater consistency on the return. One thing that has truly helped in accentuating the cross-over step is the "kick" of the opposite knee. Similar to the movment on short balls (Step,Step, Rip). Federer, Djokvic, and Nadal really seem to do this. I found when I focus on the "kick" portion it truly forces me transfer my weight and get my momentum moving forward on that cross over leg and not off to the side. I hope this little nuance movment may also be helpful to other player, as it has helped me tremendously, along with this entire series. I would have never seen this if it wastn for your amazing high speed videos.

Once again great article. Keep it up

Lukasz

[johnyandell]

Great comment on the kick back!

[richberman]

return

Great article John, as always. Very informative and clears up many misconceptions that are floating out there.
It is fun to learn from the master.
Rich

[GeoffWilliams]

I practiced with a local 5.0 today. Put some of these into real time practice. HIt some amazing returns. PUt the young guy on the run right off the line. My core rotation was blazing fast, and kept the arm out further on the fh return. The Ltec-bhbr hybrid was near dead on.

[stotty]

Split Step

Interesting how Novak lands on both feet then turns and Nadal begins his turn during the split step.

Connors seems to be like Novak in this clip. Landing on both feet then turning.http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...stSAdRear2.mov In other clips he appears to be turning during the split step http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...stSAdFront.mov

Here's Agassi doing similar to Novak http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...stSAdRear2.mov

I think Novak, Connors and Agassi are the best returners in history, so it's interesting to compare the three of them in the archive. It would be interesting to study the three them through slow motion footage.

[tennisplayer]

Could it be that there is some flexibility in split step timing? At the early end, one would turn after landing. At the later end, one would turn while landing.

Personally, I haven't figured it out to my satisfaction. I wonder if it really matters one way or the other, so long as one is able to react to the ball in time?

[johnyandell]

Yeah Tennisplayer, well said. I was basically reporting rather than prescribing. I think the one thing that is certain is that they all start the split prior to the hit. That separates levels.

[ben40plus]

Interesting to see that while the shoulders rotate anywhere from 45-90 degrees, the arm never seems to go back farther than 10-25 degrees, from the baseline. In addition, the racket seems to never go back further than 45 degrees. I am guessing these characteristics are universal for pro players when facing first serves while standing pretty close to the base line. Compact nature of this preparation makes sense to me.

However, I wonder if John or anyone else can enlighten me on a couple of things. Why don't the shoulders come all the way around on the follow through? Why is the racket higher in the follow through as compared to a forehand ground stroke?

After reading about the ATP forehand by Brian Gordan, my guess for the high finish would be to make up for the lack of a vertical component found in the full forehand stroke, facilitated (or forced) by the flip.

But why is there no shoulder rotation past the parallel point with the net? - Thanks.

[johnyandell]

Ben,

Thanks for writing in!

What I believe you are seeing is a more compact version of the Brian Gordon forehand--in the context of his work it makes perfect sense.

With less turn and a more outside racket position there will be less forward torso rotation--the contact is somewhere close to the middle of the rotation--if the turn is less, so is the rotation after contact.

As for the high finish, I don't see that. Rafa yes similar to groundstrokes. Fed over the shoulder often but standard over the shoulder. Novak usually lower because he tends to wiper more returns compared to his more common over the shoulder groundstroke finish.