The Pro Return: Part1: Compact Classical

[johnyandell]

Love to hear what people thought about "The Pro Return:
Part1: Compact Classical"

[baldokie]

I loved it. I wonder though whether you would advise this set up for players who do not have eastern grips?

[gsheiner]

John,

Let me be the first to say congratulations on a brilliant article. It is clear that the return, especially on a first serve, is not just a more compact groundstroke, it is a more conservative, shorter stroke without a lot of the excess motion that we see in a groundstroke.

I always notice that the hands separate almost immediately on the return versus the emphasis of keeping the left hand on the racket for a long time in the modern forehand.

I wonder if this is an important element in the training of a good return.

Cheers,

Glenn

[wookash]

Notice the Head and Eyes!!!

Great Article and a great breakdown.
The analysis of the pivot/swivel step, with the feet swiveling on the ground is really insightful and brings to light the advantages of your high frame/sec shots.

One thing that is important is to notice the movement of the head...its really minimal. Federer and all great returners track the ball WITH THEIR EYES on the return. Its very similar to baseball players. There is very little head movement as there isnt the time.

The return really seems to start from an even split step and a very still head. Then the entire body rotates with the swivel step.

Cant wait to work on these tips on the court. GREAT TIPS and Analysis.

LK

[bottle]

So useful. And especially applicable to service returning players who are over 70 years old. Here's the formula that proves that assertion: Young, quick stud + very fast serve = old, slow stud + very slow serve.

[GeoffWilliams]

If only you could Bottle and sell that. Kamboucha tennis: "Increase your return consistency, speed, depth, and angle." $10/16 oz. bottle.

[johnyandell]

Glenn, Wook,

Thanks for the great words. I've been wanting to investigate the returns for a while and there are always surprises when you look at the footage...hope you like the next ones as much.

[bottle]

Re # 6, Nah, nobody makes money with tennis ideas. People may pretend but who among them actually wants to hear new thoughts? A deadening of sensibility has occurred. That's my nomination for what's most wrong with American tennis.

I suppose that doing # 5 would be hard for geezers who never experiment, but there must be a significant percentage who are familiar already with long arm construction.

Among the double benders (a larger percentage), there must be sub-percentages of geezers who never use deceleration-acceleration in their forehands, but also geezers who learned the Peter Burwash adjustability factor, i.e., for balls closer to the body they bend the arm more and they extend arm more for balls farther away presumably using the same basic swing regardless of this scope.

The term "scope" in my view comes from adjusting the length of an anchor rope.

I propose lots of deceleration-acceleration in engineering this special service return for personal use instead of having shoulders still rotate forward as the arm rises upward.

In either case, however, frame should stay on edge, no? One could carry a penny on it as suggested by Susan Pendo on The Tennis Channel.

[privas]

Grip in the "ready position"

John. Congratulations on using your technology to understand something that would be, otherwise, incomprehensible.

The cross-over step--or its equivalent--is, I believe, even more intriguing when Federer returns on the backhand wing.

You probably mentioned this already in another article, but what grip does Federer use in the ready position? (2/2) Continental? And does his little counter-clockwise racquet spinning ritual in the ready position do anything useful?

Thanks again, Pedro

[johnyandell]

Pedro,

On his returns I think it's something like a 2/3 in the ready position, shifting from that for the actual grips for both forehand and backhand returns.

[wookash]

Split Step

John,

Ive been doing on court work practicing these techniques. They have been tremendously helpful, especially the cross over step and more back-and-forth raquet motion finishing on edge.

One comment that I have is that the timing of the split step needs also to be addressed. Its important to know: When does Federer land his split in relation to the serve. This is critical in initating the movements. Playing at a 5.5-6.0 level, serves come quickly. The split really needs to happen BEFORE the ball is struck, if the split comes, as conventially taught, on contact, then its too late to get through the rest of the movements.

Landing my split while the ball is in the air and combining the techniques outlined in the article has really added to my return and made a weapon.

Can you please comment on the split step timing. Thanks!

Thanks again --
Lukasz

[johnyandell]

Yeah good question about the timing. But you can see for yourself in the patterns archive.

Fed does appear to be starting the splits slightly before contact.

We need to post some more of the wide patterns in high speed to show this even more precisely. We have some Djok up now though. Look at that on his return points.

[don_budge]

Federer Federfore service return Not Gone...

A most solid article with solid video footage to back up the whole kit and caboodle.

John makes some solid key points and turns it into an epic. Unit turn with the racquet going back together. No independent arm action. Great point. Wrist set at the initiation of the backswing...typical Federer measuring his shot. Federer's follow through resembles the catch in many of the shots...abbreviated finish enabling a fast recovery. Brilliant!

Summing up...the return of serve is to the full ground stroke as the pitch shot is to the full golf swing. Many of the same elements...three quarters swing and sometimes less than the motion of the full swing. Less emphasis on the lower body due to time constraints...but as always weight should be at least "leaning" into the return or optimally poised over the front foot or where the front foot would of been if there were enough time to plant it.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/music_videos/federer_fh_not_gone/index.html

Video footage shot on the same location in Cincinnati as the Federer "Forehand Not Gone" music video. The more that I watch that video the more that I like it. It illustrates many of the same points that the article does as the forehands are all hit with less than ideal setup due to the time constraints enforced by the opponents shots. The music video is as brilliant as the article is solid. One of the better technical articles that I have read here on the forum. It doesn't hurt to use "The Man" in this as he is probably the standard over the past ten years or so with regard to the forehand return. Very nice!

[johnyandell]

DB,

What can I say, the words are appreciated!

John

[jimlosaltos]

Thanks

Love to hear what people thought about "The Pro Return:
Part1: Compact Classical"

Little to add except to say thanks. Great article.

Personally, when I hit next time I'm going to think about what my recovery steps are like on wide forehand returns. This will, of course, mess up my returns, but such is the price of progress <g>.
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