Your Strokes: Ted Gregory: One Handed Backhand

[johnyandell]

Love to hear what people thought about "Your Strokes: Ted Gregory: One Handed Backhand"!

[lobndropshot]

Weird how he suddenly dropped his racket in the back-swing.

I would also like to add that the one-hander for a teen-aged boy should be looked into when starting them off.

[adallastiger]

Don't really agree with your general idea here...

....John, I will respectfully disagree with you on your general outlook here. I will say that as a rule you can't say that a two hander or a one hander is best for everyone.

But you are probably off in your thinking in this regard: I have often heard it said that the most important stroke in tennis is the serve. The second most important stroke is the RETURN OF SERVE. Not saying that is true, but there is some merit to it.

Let me say that I am a teaching pro and I hit both one hand backhands and two handers. I also hit two hands off my forehand and also hit a one hand forehand. All have their place.

But the problem with hitting a one hand backhand, means you are most likely going to return serve that way, which at the very least, has limitations. Since a two hand return is much better for players (at least up to 4.5 level) then you should probably hit your ground strokes that way. The problem with your lesson and thinking (respectfully) is that you are leaving the service return out of the equation, assuming that all that is involved in tennis is groundstrokes. There are exceptions, but the greater control and stability with two hands on the racket will always mean that a two hand backhand is better for most players, especially at the club level.

The big problem with one hand backhands (compared to two, especially on service returns) is that unless one is extraordinarily skilled, it is hard to put pace on balls high to backhand. Let's see how your student hits with topspin, LOL, when balls aren't exactly in his target zone and are up high! He will probably have to slice, where the two hand player can hit hard, even if racket head is above the wrist.

I also believe grip type should have been stated, do NOT do this stroke with a continental grip. Knuckle of index finger should be on top bevel. Eastern backhand grip is best.

One thing left out...there is no reason to hit with a one hand backhand, or a two hand backhand. Why not have both? More on that at another time.

Warmest Regards,
Robert Hyman
Dallas, Texas

[llll]

john i thought you did a great job.
another pro with a good backhand is james blake who also doesnt use a big loop
as for the above comments
i cant tell the guys age but he looks senior to me
imoroving what he has rather than starting from scratch seems a better approach to me
thinking of the 10000 hour rule of mastery
the odds of him playing heavy topspinners or servers at over 100 mph
id say is low
jmho
icbw

[johnyandell]

Robert,

Thanks for your comments. I think you make some good points about the return. But in my opinion they apply to very high levels of play. The return on the one-hander is fine in club play--in fact having a great slice return is actually probably better for a player like Ted who plays mainly doubles.

There are excpetions of course, but I have seen even quite skilled players in the 40s try to go from one-hand to two and never achieve explosiveness or fluidity.

I also disagree about the multiple hands. From everything you say you have made it work well for you. But I've never seen a high level player that went back and forth on the backhand much less on both sides. Then again, maybe your approach is the wave of the future!

We can agree to disagree but keep the comments coming.

John Yandell

[llll]

Robert,

Thanks for your comments. I think you make some good points about the return. But in my opinion they apply to very high levels of play. The return on the one-hander is fine in club play--in fact having a great slice return is actually probably better for a player like Ted who plays mainly doubles.

There are excpetions of course, but I have seen even quite skilled players in the 40s try to go from one-hand to two and never achieve explosiveness or fluidity.

I also disagree about the multiple hands. From everything you say you have made it work well for you. But I've never seen a high level player that went back and forth on the backhand much less on both sides. Then again, maybe your approach is the wave of the future!

We can agree to disagree but keep the comments coming.

John Yandell

i think santoro fabricio is the only one who hit with 2 hands and had a successful carreer
if noone else has done it????????????

[johnyandell]

monica, gene mayer, greg holmes...but those guys were two hands all the time on both sides.

[lobndropshot]

pancho segura as well played with a two hander on the forehand side.

Who are the brothers with the two-handled rackets?

[rboykin]

Ted's backhand

As someone who has put in a fair amount of work on his one-hander, I think Ted would hit the ball with more regular authority if he really worked on his left arm extension. John pointed out the importance of that movement in describing the Federer video, but the "after" footage seems to show that Ted didn't really buy into it. In my experience, getting that back arm out during the shot with some force (while nevertheless leaning into the shot) makes a significant difference in realibility and in power.

[johnyandell]

Yeah he made a start on that and I agree it's important! Don't think it's a question of "buying in" more "working toward." Hopefully something he'll improve working with the model.

[don_budge]

Loosen up Teddy...your a bit too tight (with the shoulders)

But the problem with hitting a one hand backhand, means you are most likely going to return serve that way, which at the very least, has limitations. Since a two hand return is much better for players (at least up to 4.5 level) then you should probably hit your ground strokes that way. The problem with your lesson and thinking (respectfully) is that you are leaving the service return out of the equation, assuming that all that is involved in tennis is groundstrokes. There are exceptions, but the greater control and stability with two hands on the racket will always mean that a two hand backhand is better for most players, especially at the club level.

The big problem with one hand backhands (compared to two, especially on service returns) is that unless one is extraordinarily skilled, it is hard to put pace on balls high to backhand. Let's see how your student hits with topspin, LOL, when balls aren't exactly in his target zone and are up high! He will probably have to slice, where the two hand player can hit hard, even if racket head is above the wrist.

I also believe grip type should have been stated, do NOT do this stroke with a continental grip. Knuckle of index finger should be on top bevel. Eastern backhand grip is best.

One thing left out...there is no reason to hit with a one hand backhand, or a two hand backhand. Why not have both? More on that at another time.

Well John...I read your article and sifted through all of the visual evidence and took all of the logistics into the equation and conclude with very little uncertainty that you are absolutely correct on just about every single fact and nuance that you site. I say "just about" only because I don't know how to say plainly that you are absolutely correct. My bad.

Your assessment of your "patient" is spot on...this guy would never be comfortable scooting around the court setting up for a two handed swing. What he will most likely be most comfortable doing is setting up for a one handed slice and at his level of play this is the most logical choice. Players at the 3.5 level will win most of their matches if they play it a bit safe and conservative and keep the ball in play while at the same time begin to endeavor to maneuver their opponents. When playing at this level I think one of the best tactical routes a player can take is to slice low and wide to their opponents backhand...particularly if the opponent uses a two handed backhand, followed up with a controlled drive or more likely a slice back deep down the forehand side. In fact the converse tactic of using the slice to float or drive deep into the backhand corner then a short low spinning ball to the opponents strong gripped forehand makes for some high percentage tactics against the modern day club player who is most likely attempting to emulate what they are seeing in the professional game.

At this level of play it is paramount to get every single return of serve back into play and not to necessarily put the server at an immediate disadvantage. It is probably safer and therefore wiser to neutralize the serve before thinking about applying any kind of pressure. Club players should be taught to play the game to be patient and try to extract errors from their opponents. In the same respect high balls can be safely played back into the court with an emphasis on net clearance and depth...typically not aggression. Eventually players at Ted's level can take the ball on the rise with underspin which comes in very handy when you understand that winning matches is not all about shock and awe at this level...it is about subtly maneuvering your opponent out of position and hopefully off balance.

Robert's remarks are excellent if one is to take into consideration of a higher level of play. I think it is great that he has such a versatile repertoire and is able to capably demonstrate such a wide range of choices.

As for Mr. Ted Gregory...just a couple of suggestions. Number one when driving the ball with a one hand backhand lower that front shoulder and point it initially at the ball when making a shoulder turn. This should give him a more loaded stance. Number two...keep that left elbow pretty much glued to the side on the backswing, you will find that you can make a bigger turn and therefore a bigger backswing while still maintaining some semblance of control and stability. By fixing the elbow to the side you more or less can calibrate your backswing by the amount that you turn your shoulders. You might want to try taking the racquet head from the level of the back ear to the front ear...I saw this cue in an additional clip in the "A good model for the serve" submitted by lobndropshot. Get a little more swing in that arm eventually.

This was a very nice article...without the bells and whistles and really serves as a great point of reference for Ted or other players at that level of play.

[johnyandell]

DB,

Thanks for the great input!

JY

[privas]

Racquet Angle at Take-Back

John. Excellent article. The clips of McEnroe and Lendl show them taking their racquets back pointing parallel to the court. Actually McEnroe's tips below somewhat. Your stroke archive shows Federer's racquet on his take back at 45 to 90 degrees, almost like he's gonna slice the ball. This isn't just a camaflouge technique but an excellent way to recruit the help of gravity to generate racquet head speed. Doug Eng's paradigm of "associated techniques" would apply here. Like the eastern forehand grip, the eastern backhand grip effectively places the hand "behind the racquet" on the initial downward path of the arc. I don't have McEnroe's or Lendl's backhand and I enjoy returning with two hands. But when it comes to hitting a one-hander, I can only generate racquet head speed when I point my racquet upwards on the take-back. I don't believe this point is emphasized enough. But alas, few teaching pros today know how to teach the one-hander. Your article certainly helps. Respectfully, Pedro

[johnyandell]

Thanks Pedro and yep, what Fed does is pretty optimal--if you're a high level player. I have found the straight back really helps people with preparation probs at lower levels.

But as you and DB both point out there is a reason why the top players point up--and interestingly, both John and Ivan do go up from that position before they come forward!

[privas]

The High Take-back vs Straight Take-back

John. I appreciate your insights. I certainly don't want to beat a dead horse. But as a club player having access to all three surfaces, I have struggled with the one-hander for the past 6 years! I have found myself going back the the two-hander time after time. Not just because it makes the "shock-and-awe" return of serve possible, but because on the clay, it is almost impossible to generate any amount of pace on the one-hander unless you have a High Take-back. If, indeed, your article was intended to generate more interest in the one-hander over the two-hander, then an article featuring my one-hander at a 4.5 level would have been good. I, for one, intend to teach my 3 small kids both one- and two-handers, the two-hander for the return of serve only or the really high one you refuse to slice, and the one-hander for everything else.

Most folks like me mistakenly abandoned the one-hander because they cannot generate enough racquet head speed. Most folks think the one-hander too complicated. Most folks have trouble tracking the ball and turning their shoulders early and taking that last Giant Step with their right foot. I propose teaching the High Take-back early in one's training as it will 1. allow for the generation of racquet head speed 2. allow for more simplicity as the take-back is the same for the backhand slice 3. allow for better tracking of the incoming ball with the left hand just below the throat of the racquet, just like the slice (and the forehand too!), and the left arm naturally aids the turning of the shoulder. With all due respect, Federer's backhand is described by most commentators as "textbook." I cannot see your patient ever going beyond a 3.5, or ever playing on the clay, unless he reads the textbook. Perhaps working on simple left arm mechanics to "connect the dots in a circle" using your high-speed footage would have been more useful?

Respectfully, Pedro