For Don_Budge and don

[stotty]

Happy New Year...

Anyone TP member who appreciates exceptional serving might want to look at this....

Go to exactly the 6th minute in the clip and wait to see the best sliced serve ace you will ever see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUeT4MIETp4&feature=related

[GeoffWilliams]

And that's why they changed the grass. What an impossible serve. The biggest kick slice ever.

[bottle]

He's doing something with his wrist, right at the top of his pause.

[stotty]

Wrist movement...

He's doing something with his wrist, right at the top of his pause.

Yes, he does that on all his serves. I've never quite worked out what his wrist is doing at that point and how he gets away with an idiosyncrasy like that at such a critical moment in the serve. It's very noticeable.

[don_budge]

Funny business...in the wrist of both players

That little barely perceptible wrist movement at the top of Stich's motion, as bottle puts it, or where he is transforming from backswing to forward motion is what I generally call a little funny business. Generally speaking you can attribute that to a flaw in his backswing or perhaps even in the timing of his toss. It looks as if he makes that little waffling motion in order to perfectly time his serve.

Oooh....I am watching the video on another screen and he just hit that slice at 6.00 in the video. Very impressive.

But back to the idiosyncrasy in the Stich serve...take a look at the other man's motion. Stefan Edberg is taking all kinds of artistic liberties in his service motion...but it's incredibly effective. Just imagine either of these guys if they endeavored to perfect their service motions. As it is, that is one of the most beautiful and sublime features of the game...the wiggle room that each and every player has to interpret the way the shot is to be played. Certain fundamentals must be adhered to but beyond that there is room for individual interpretation.

With regards to geoffwilliams observation...that is a very astute observation with regards to the history of the game. This particular time frame in the game was in the aftershock phase of the equipment change. Boris Becker was also a starring participant in this brief period in tennis history before the ITF decided that they must compensate for the over abundance and emphasis upon power and speed in the serve and volley game so they began monkeying around with the speed of the courts. This rather brief era produced some really big servers and volleyers. I know that most everyone is all hunky dory with the game and the way it stands...but I maintain that the game has lost some of the most appealing aspects of the original in increments. This is a prime example of the initial phase...of shock and awe tennis.

The increase in the size of the racquets also increased some of the liberties that one might make with the fundamental aspects of the various strokes and these two titans of Phase I of Modern Tennis are prime examples of what kind of brilliant shots could be produced on a consistent basis with less than perfect mechanics. It's amazing what the professionals can do with more margin for error. Both of these players, by the way, had rather exceptional volley technique, don't you agree? But fast forward to today's service motions and volley technique...see what I mean?

[stotty]

Funny business

That little barely perceptible wrist movement at the top of Stich's motion, as bottle puts it, or where he is transforming from backswing to forward motion is what I generally call a little funny business. Generally speaking you can attribute that to a flaw in his backswing or perhaps even in the timing of his toss. It looks as if he makes that little waffling motion in order to perfectly time his serve.

Oooh....I am watching the video on another screen and he just hit that slice at 6.00 in the video. Very impressive.

But back to the idiosyncrasy in the Stich serve...take a look at the other man's motion. Stefan Edberg is taking all kinds of artistic liberties in his service motion...but it's incredibly effective. Just imagine either of these guys if they endeavored to perfect their service motions. As it is, that is one of the most beautiful and sublime features of the game...the wiggle room that each and every player has to interpret the way the shot is to be played. Certain fundamentals must be adhered to but beyond that there is room for individual interpretation.

With regards to geoffwilliams observation...that is a very astute observation with regards to the history of the game. This particular time frame in the game was in the aftershock phase of the equipment change. Boris Becker was also a starring participant in this brief period in tennis history before the ITF decided that they must compensate for the over abundance and emphasis upon power and speed in the serve and volley game so they began monkeying around with the speed of the courts. This rather brief era produced some really big servers and volleyers. I know that most everyone is all hunky dory with the game and the way it stands...but I maintain that the game has lost some of the most appealing aspects of the original in increments. This is a prime example of the initial phase...of shock and awe tennis.

The increase in the size of the racquets also increased some of the liberties that one might make with the fundamental aspects of the various strokes and these two titans of Phase I of Modern Tennis are prime examples of what kind of brilliant shots could be produced on a consistent basis with less than perfect mechanics. It's amazing what the professionals can do with more margin for error. Both of these players, by the way, had rather exceptional volley technique, don't you agree? But fast forward to today's service motions...see what I mean?

Yes, I wondered if Stich had developed that unusual wrist movement to give himself a further split second delay in order to be at point B at exactly the right time.

I feel G's dragging motion (now almost eradicated) during the early part of the backswing was part of the same desease. You are going to need micro delays here and there to meet the ball toss "just so"...right? That's maybe why Pancho's serve was so good...more abbreviated than Stich's...no hitches or micro delays.

I let G play with a Dunlop Maxply the other day, just for fun. He played well with it. He suffered no great loss of power and even volleyed well with it. We left the court feeling modern rackets and strings may be a little overrated.

Shame we can't pass a rule saying all the entrants of Australian Open must use a wooden racket this year. Now that would be interesting. Then we could really compare today with yesterday.

[don_budge]

Wooden racquets...sigh.

Shame we can't pass a rule saying all the entrants of Australian Open must use a wooden racket this year. Now that would be interesting. Then we could really compare today with yesterday.

Since you have been so fortunate to regularly attend Wimbledon through the years you can probably appreciate first hand what has been going on with the engineering. When you were watching these two dueling it out on the grass it must of appeared to be blazing fast. Notice the wear pattern on the courts...you don't see that trail to the net any longer.

That would be some interesting tournament, played with wooden racquets that is. Of course playing one of the Slams wouldn't be possible because the ITF would actually show up at the right time for once and put a stop to it. Maybe a series of four invitational exhibition events in the Grand Slam format would make for some compelling tennis...I wonder which of the modern players has the equipment to make the transition backwards in time with the least amount of effort? I will give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

[stotty]

Since you have been so fortunate to regularly attend Wimbledon through the years you can probably appreciate first hand what has been going on with the engineering. When you were watching these two dueling it out on the grass it must of appeared to be blazing fast. Notice the wear pattern on the courts...you don't see that trail to the net any longer.

That would be some interesting tournament, played with wooden racquets that is. Of course playing one of the Slams wouldn't be possible because the ITF would actually show up at the right time for once and put a stop to it. Maybe a series of four invitational exhibition events in the Grand Slam format would make for some compelling tennis...I wonder which of the modern players has the equipment to make the transition backwards in time with the least amount of effort? I will give you three guesses and the first two don't count.

Federer.

Back then the grass was awfully quick...far, far quicker than now. So yes the game was blisteringly quick. Which makes Borg's achievements all the more remarkable! The fastest court I ever saw was the Cash v Lendl final in 1987...worked out great for Cash.

[tennis_chiro]

Imagine Lendl on today's courts!

Federer.

Back then the grass was awfully quick...far, far quicker than now. So yes the game was blisteringly quick. Which makes Borg's achievements all the more remarkable! The fastest court I ever saw was the Cash v Lendl final in 1987...worked out great for Cash.

Lendl is in the news a lot now coaching Murray. I remember when he won Queens after Roche became his coach. I thought,oh my, he has figured it out. He's going to win Wimbledon now, and then the calendar Slam. He looked so good, it was astounding. It was only when I got to attend the Stella Artois at Queens in the mid90's that I learned how different the grass at Queens was from any other grass court I had ever seen. Those courts were like a carpet. By comparison, the courts I played on at the Meadow Club in Southampton, NY or the Newport Casino were like cow pastures. At that time, the courts at Wimbledon were much better than the courts in the US, but they were nowhere near as consistent as the Queens Club.

From what I understand, the first step was that Wimbledon got the groundskeeper from Queens Club to take over the job at Wimbledon. The first step was to even out the surface of the courts at Wimbledon. The next step was to change the grass seed and slow the courts down even more. We talk about what would happen to today's players if they had to play with yesterday's equipment. Can you imagine how many Wimbledon's Lendl might have won had he been able to play on today's Wimbledon grass!

Stotty, please correct me if I have the chronology wrong.

don

[stotty]

Lendl is in the news a lot now coaching Murray. I remember when he won Queens after Roche became his coach. I thought,oh my, he has figured it out. He's going to win Wimbledon now, and then the calendar Slam. He looked so good, it was astounding. It was only when I got to attend the Stella Artois at Queens in the mid90's that I learned how different the grass at Queens was from any other grass court I had ever seen. Those courts were like a carpet. By comparison, the courts I played on at the Meadow Club in Southampton, NY or the Newport Casino were like cow pastures. At that time, the courts at Wimbledon were much better than the courts in the US, but they were nowhere near as consistent as the Queens Club.

From what I understand, the first step was that Wimbledon got the groundskeeper from Queens Club to take over the job at Wimbledon. The first step was to even out the surface of the courts at Wimbledon. The next step was to change the grass seed and slow the courts down even more. We talk about what would happen to today's players if they had to play with yesterday's equipment. Can you imagine how many Wimbledon's Lendl might have won had he been able to play on today's Wimbledon grass!

Stotty, please correct me if I have the chronology wrong.

don

You chronology is spot on...nothing i can add...other than Queens had far less use than Wimbledon and still has. The Wimbledon courts take a tremendous pounding over the two weeks.... singles, doubles, mixed, junior wimbledon, veterans...and wheelchair tennis.

Lendl was unlucky in 1987. The courts were so quick and Cash hit great form.