Oscar Wegner on the 1 hand backhand from scratch

[don_budge]

Interesting little 3 minute video on how to teach the one hand backhand. Brilliantly simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQRgnqWtUOY&feature=related

Brief summary:

1. Thumb against the strings perpendicular to the arm.

2. Position student in the middle of the service courts and have them walk forwards and backwards across the court.

3. Feed balls and have the student lift their arm as they "swing".

4. Move grip down the handle to top of the grip.

5. Control is important, not power.

6. Next phase...after student lifts and hits, turn with the arm held high and walk back to initial starting point and allow racquet to return to the free hand.


"Simplicity makes it powerful." -Oscar Wegner

[don_budge]

Major Tom to Ground Control...David Bowie

Recently, I have had the opportunity to work some with the progressive stages of Oscar Wegner combined with a Yandellian and Tildenesque image of the hand in the follow through position with the one hand backhand. My student has been none other than Major Tom (Tomas that is, of the Swedish Army). He is giving me some good tips on shooting guns. He quoted some British approach to aiming to me...as usual I have forgotten to write it down and once the air stopped moving...I forgot exactly what it was that he said. I'll ask him next time and forward it on here.

He really likes the approach that we have taken. Underhand throwing and catching technique work and exercise...which is appropriate because I discovered that he throws naturally left handed while playing tennis right handed. First we work with the orange balls, using Oscar's progressions from the thumb on the strings, then to the hand at the top of the grip and finally moving the hand to the bottom of the grip...starting close to the net and moving the student gradually back deeper into the court. After some time, when the follow through position is beginning to be worthy of the image being projected in the students mind we use the normal tennis balls at shorter range and work back until we are baseline to baseline.

After some time the only command that I have to give to the student is "AVSLUTNING"...which is final position or follow through in English. The image of the position is paramount. I love giving commands to the Major.

He's hitting the ball really good. Good old don_budge is working on his own game while he is teaching...conjuring up the appropriate follow through image in the noodle, aiming one bounce and waist to the good Major. Watching the ball...keeping the head in position ala Roger. I don't feel that old. Still a little wild.

[klacr]

Difference of opinions?

Here's a video from Oscar. He talks about the location of the ball on the stringbed during a topspin shot, and an underspin shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7XQHDYShUQ

Interesting. Could have sworn there was an article on this subject in a past issue.

[johnyandell]

Uh, yeah we disagreed on that one. The difference may have been in the type of evidence. Naked eye versus high speed video...

[don_budge]

The Budapest flourish...

More success on the one hand backhand front. This time the beautiful red haired Hungarian dentist/ballerina with sixteen years of Balkan flourishes to eliminate and correct. I have sort of struggled with this student trying to install the correct moves that are necessary in the correct stroking of the tennis ball.

In one and a half hours we made more progress than we have made in an entire year. Slowing down and taking things in progressions...baby steps is the ticket. She was so excited that she went home and gave her Mumsy, who is visiting from Budapest, the entire Oscar Wegner/John Yandell/don_budge experience as a demonstration. Mumsy was quite impressed from what I gather.

Her issues on the forehand are basically of ball position...or rather where to meet the ball. In the process she was encouraged to hit the ball more in front thereby enabling her to hit up into the ball with a nice trajectory...all made possible by the image of the projected follow through position. She also had a rather bad habit of dragging the racquet head back instead of directing the tip of the racquet back as soon as biomechanically possible.

The backhand had turned into a real puzzle, a real pretzel with strange forms...and I was tempted to opt out for the two handed backhand which we did an hour on the Wegner method with nice results. Most of her issues on the backhand were in getting the racquet back in the correct position in order to hit up on the ball instead of ineffectively drawing across the ball (over the top in golf lingo) with maddening results. By getting the swing started in the proper manner it is possible to finish in the correct position.

[klacr]

Yeah, you're right John. We will certainly have to give Oscar a pass on that one. Obviously, by the video you can tell it's a bit dated. Although, it does remind me of all the good times I had as a teaching professional at Saddlebrook.

It also reminds us of just how impactful high speed video has become to debunk certain ideas and preconceived notions we have all had at one time or another in our careers.

I have used this Wegner method for both forehands and backhands on some of my students with great success. Glad don_budge was able to find it. Thanks.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA

[bottle]

To Kyle: I don't buy that anything or anybody has been debunked by videos-- unless all the videos ever made can be viewed at once to show that contact is always in center of the racket and never in the lower or upper half.

One thing about hitting right in the middle-- if you're a little off you may have strings retreating from the ball just when you wish they were approaching, and
you may have strings approaching the ball just when you wish they were retreating.

To Steve: Once the mother arrives from Budapest it's all over.

[johnyandell]

bottle,

try reading the article.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/string_bed_and_pro_contact_point/

[bottle]

~

How about, "Bottle, read this article" rather than "Bottle, try to read this article."

Well, this article SOUNDS like science. But what if the real goal of it is to show that somebody is a silly man?

For relevance to useful tennis life, it could have asked, if it couldn't quantify, what percentage of hits in each category resulted in unforced errors?-- assuming that the sampling of shots given is sufficiently large and good as to convince.

As we all know, I could be wrong about anything, but I suspect nevertheless that fewer errors are generated on balls hit in the center or marginally below center (to discuss first topic in the article only.)

This speculation is consistent with our common knowledge, gained from television, that Roger Federer plays higher risk tennis than Rafa Nadal or Novak Djokovic.

Another missing piece of essential information is what each player's own take on this subject is-- whether he's trying to hit the ball here or up there or down there on the racket and by how much.

Must have some effect on what happens, one would think.

Since the Willies Hoppe and Mosconi always talked about half a pool cue's width to generate different spins, the part about hits farther out toward the middle frame doesn't seem too important in tennis where speed of instrument and magnification of error is so much greater. I'm more interested in a tennis ethic-- what I personally ought to be intending to do and where my best margin of error is.

I'm also curious about the service application discussed by Rosheem in this forum but never addressed meaningfully by anyone else.

Rosheem talked about hitting the ball with internal rotation on inner edge of the racket as good idea. Is it? It's the same question, no?

[don_budge]

10%?...or "Too Much Information"-The Police

Does the article factor in that Federer's racquet is 10% smaller than the other two gladiators? If not, then it is skewed.

Not that I care. I tried to read the article. Tried anyways a couple of times. This science is an unnecessary science...at least for me. I suppose someone needs it. Both Oscar's video and the study...both made possible by the "discovery" of larger racquets. How about an article where these modern day "gladiators" would be hitting the strings with a standard sized wood frame? Of course you would have to add a column for balls ricocheting off the frame into the stratosphere. Now there is an article that would get my interest.

Just look at Oscar's monstrosity of a Prince...it looks like a stupid snowshoe. I guarantee that Budge, Gonzales, Rosewal, McEnroe, Borg et al...this crew never gave it a moments notice as to what part of the string bed they were attempting to use. They were looking for the "sweet spot".

My only interest in Oscar Wegner videos is to help me...to help people hit the tennis ball better. I borrow what I find applicable and disregard the rest. To discern is divine these days. This particular student, the beautiful redhead, is overwhelmingly happy to use the strings, any strings...at all times. Whereabouts on the string bed is way too much information for the typical student.

I find the conversations both interesting and amusing at the same time.

bottle...she came, she saw, she was a little wild.

[johnyandell]

Bottle, all those balls went in. It's clear that the players have only relative control of the where the ball hits the string bed, but actually tend to prefer on the center line and slightly closer to the tip, but definitely not below center.

The point is this: if you are going to make claims of the advantages of doing things like the pros--which is a fraught issue in and of itself--at least make sure first that the pros are actually doing what you claim.

In this case I don't think the evidence supports the claim or the advice that stems from it. I think that for the average player who tries to follow it will have a negative result. This is my opinion based on a careful study of hundreds of ball string collisions and I am happy to agree to disagree with anyone who is unpersuaded.

[klacr]

Sorry

Wow, I feel bad that my simple post about the benefit of video analysis seemed to start this intellectual banter. I was not trying to disrespect or disregard Wegner's method, just making a point of how much we have learned and gained by precise video analysis. That's all.

I do enjoy the comments, the sound reasoning and arguments and find everyone's viewpoints interesting and helpful.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA

[bottle]

Don't Worry, Kyle

I don't think anybody's feathers are ruffled. But if they were, they'd live since ruffled feathers this week isn't deemed a fatal disease by the medical establishment.

But, you know, I still wonder what anybody's thinking is, other than my own, on hitting a serve, not a groundstroke, closer to one middle edge than the other. I know that Brody has written interestingly about service contacts near the racket tip, thought it was a good idea, but this is a different question.

[tennis_chiro]

Spin serve off center

I don't think anybody's feathers are ruffled. But if they were, they'd live since ruffled feathers this week isn't deemed a fatal disease by the medical establishment.

But, you know, I still wonder what anybody's thinking is, other than my own, on hitting a serve, not a groundstroke, closer to one middle edge than the other. I know that Brody has written interestingly about service contacts near the racket tip, thought it was a good idea, but this is a different question.

At first glance, this might seem to make some sense as we are trying to slide the face of the racket across the ball, but I think (don't know) that the reality is that the ball doesn't move across the strings that much. Moreover, when the racket is traveling near 100mph on a serve, it is all the more important for the contact point to be near the center of mass of the racket face or the associated off-center forces would influence the "attitude" of the racket face and misdirect the ball. You want as much of the momentum of the racket head as possible going in the intended direction of the ball at impact even as the racket face is being rotated into it's pronated post-impact position.

don

[klacr]

Bottle,
Thanks for the kind words. Those service thoughts are a different post indeed. But very interesting. As tennis fans, players, coaches, and professionals, we all have different views/opinions on what is right, what is more efficient, and what is technically achievable. I get that. I deal with that on a daily basis.

I do enjoy always learning something new or groundbreaking and love hearing opinions, thoughts, new ideas or research. Keep up the chatter and opinions. The more we share, the more we learn.

Also, great to know ruffled feathers are not fatal. Having made a successful career in South Florida (Boca Raton), for some people down here it is.

Sincerely,

Kyle LaCroix