On Novak Djokovic

[johnyandell]

Let's hear your thoughts on Mats Wilander's interview on "Novak Djokovic".

[stotty]

Another interesting view on things. I think Robbie gets to the crux of Novak's improvement better, though. Interesting theory on "hitting balls into the stands" rather than let Novak get rhythm...bit simplistic...not sure it would work...those balls in the stands are lost point, too, don't forget.

It's fascinating. I think Nadal is the finished article and can do little to improve his game to turn the tables on Novak. Let's see....riveting...fascinating...the whole Nadal/Novak thing.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

Lot of people talking about it eh??

John

[DougEng]

Wilander's Insights on Djokovic

Mats Wilander's on-the-mark comments are terrific insights into Nole and why he can eat Nadal and Roger can't. But what great comments can't one expect from one of the all-time greats?

About four years ago, some coach friends and I were exchanging ideas on who might be the next number one. We agreed Nadal would overtake Federer but who would be after that. I picked Nadal to grab #1 but only hold it for a year or longer as a dominant #1. Actually I thought Novak would grab #1 sometime in 2010. I was a bit too early. Players today mature a bit later than 30 years ago when running and being consistent was the major baseline strategy from a relative standpoint. I think today's game is far too demanding for teenagers both in matchplay and tour travel. The new spin rates, polyester strings, and bigger, better athletes make it harder for a youngster to push balls around. Given that, we also see Nadal, Djokovic and Murray maturing at 24-26 years old.

Back to Nadal's comments, about four years ago, Djokovic had most of the game to beat Nadal but some things were missing as we know: better fitness, better serve, and confidence or faith in himself. Now he has a purpose and a destiny. Even two-three years ago, Djokovic has something few others have, the ability to change directions on the ball, angle it and run, run hard like Rafa. But his serve and fitness gave him problems holding and he would have marathon first sets with Nadal but would often struggle afterwards.

Now, its different. So what does Djokovic do. Wilander describes it beautifully. I have a similar but slightly different angle...regarding Djokovic
vs Nadal and why Federer couldn't do it. Mats says Djokovic has no pocket like Federer's backhand which if Fed went to Nadal crosscourt with the forehand, Nadal could send it back to Fed's backhand.

I feel it's 2 things (saying it almost the same as Wilander). Djokovic
hits a better angled forehand than Nadal...Federer's
strength is inside-in and inside-out but not using the full court as
well. He's a beautful artist but will vary the pace a bit too much and not hit the same angles as consistently. Djokovic can angle Nadal off the court better and his backhand gives Nadal no relief. If Nadal goes at Djokovic's backhand from the deuce court Djokovic can angle him off the court with the sharp crosscourt or go aggressively down-the-line.
He can change directions better and unlike Federer who plays offense and defense, Djokovic is almost all pressure offense. Federer can't open the court with the forehand to Nadal's backhand as well and when he has to
hit a backhand, he uses a bit too much slice which keeps Nadal in the
point. At Roland Garros, this year, I think Federer learned a bit watching Djokovic beat Nadal and played much more aggressively especially on the backhand (didn't slice as much) which created more pressure on Nadal.

Constant pressure on Nadal is a must to beat him. The two ways to beat Nadal are either:

1) Hit big through him...but there's only like 2-3 guys who can do
that - Del Potro, Soderling...and Isner and Karlovic can actuallly
give Nadal trouble (as we've seen this year's matches were tight).
2) Angle the ball and make him run if you can run better...only
Djokovic and possibly Murray can do this. Andy needs to realize
he can beat Rafa this way...so far he hasn't because he mixes up a
great deal...and that's not going to beat Nadal. Djokovic turns his
matches into horse races....and Nadal is no longer the fastest player
on the tour (I think he lost that actually 3 years ago...but he
compensated with greater offense)...just one of the faster players but
Ferrer, Djokovic, and Murray are faster...and maybe more.

Federer and Murray usually try to beat Nadal by mixing up....unfortunately Nadal is too steady and can run down balls if you change pace, etc. And Nadal has the best defensive hands in the game...he's brilliant off low balls, passing shots, touch shots even though his technique is sometimes a bit short. When in trouble against Fed, Nadal would just hit heavy spin to Federer's backhand (Wilander's "pocket") which allowed him back into the match. Just don't let Nadal defend with his hands, but with his legs only.

[tennis_chiro]

Doug, did you see the match in Tokyo??

...only
Djokovic and possibly Murray can do this. Andy needs to realize
he can beat Rafa this way...so far he hasn't because he mixes up a
great deal...and that's not going to beat Nadal. ...

I think we will see a different Murray from here out. I realize balls and courts play a role, but Andy put such a beatdown on Rafa in Tokyo. As he acknowledged after the match, he played unbelievably well and wouldn't expect to reproduce that quality, but I felt he realized there was nothing Rafa could do to hurt him. It seemed Rafa was lucky to win even the 4 points total he got in the third set. And Murray played that match proactively aggressive rather than reactively.

Then, watching Rafa's press conference after the Shanghai loss to Mayer, I felt like someone needed to give him a hug. I expect to see Nadal come back with a bigger, deeper forehand, more aggressive backhand and much bigger serve in January; otherwise, he will be relegated to 3 or 4 and below. Quite a change, considering how dominant he was just 2 years ago.

Nadal's edge is that heavy forehand, but the disadvantage is it makes the ball short. If you can handle the high backhand the way Murray and Djokovic can, he is in trouble. Their height also helps Berdych and Soderling this way.

I just hope everyone is at 100% for Paris and London the next 3 weeks. It could be very interesting. It will be a preview of whether we have a settling in or a changing of the guard after the Australian.

don

[DougEng]

I think we will see a different Murray from here out. I realize balls and courts play a role, but Andy put such a beatdown on Rafa in Tokyo. As he acknowledged after the match, he played unbelievably well and wouldn't expect to reproduce that quality, but I felt he realized there was nothing Rafa could do to hurt him. It seemed Rafa was lucky to win even the 4 points total he got in the third set. And Murray played that match proactively aggressive rather than reactively.

Then, watching Rafa's press conference after the Shanghai loss to Mayer, I felt like someone needed to give him a hug. I expect to see Nadal come back with a bigger, deeper forehand, more aggressive backhand and much bigger serve in January; otherwise, he will be relegated to 3 or 4 and below. Quite a change, considering how dominant he was just 2 years ago.

Nadal's edge is that heavy forehand, but the disadvantage is it makes the ball short. If you can handle the high backhand the way Murray and Djokovic can, he is in trouble. Their height also helps Berdych and Soderling this way.

I just hope everyone is at 100% for Paris and London the next 3 weeks. It could be very interesting. It will be a preview of whether we have a settling in or a changing of the guard after the Australian.

don

Yes, Murray has also gained confidence lately, moved to #3 and not only has Federer learned how to play Nadal from Djokovic, but Murray has too. I think people realize they need to take it to Nadal. Federer tried to do that for ages including go to the net but playing a bit too much defense just let Nadal back in. Murray has game enough to beat Nadal from the baseline. As mentioned, when he mixed up his game (as many say, he plays reactively) he doesn't fare well against Nadal. But his steamrolling as of late gives him new confidence...maybe #2 next year? Hard to say, since he'd have to snatch a couple hardcourt titles from Djokovic (not Nadal who should dominate the clay court season with Djokovic).

Yes, height is one thing, but Soderling and Del Potro also hit much bigger than Federer. They can hit through Nadal. Even Djkovic does. Nadal runs hard on many a points against Nole but finally when he gets back in and Djokovic crushes a ball through the middle, Rafa can't get a rhythm. He makes plenty of mistakes against Nole as of late feeling even pressure in the middle of the court, not just the wings. So he has rather unraveled at the baseline against Nole.

[stotty]

I think Doug is right when he says everyone else has learnt from Djokovic. Not only has he given the others belief, but he's shown them the way, too. Funny how when you watch someone else achieve something you've never been able to, it suddenly feels doable for you too. This happens in all walks of life, not just tennis.

What fascinates me is what Uncle Toni is going to come up with to combat things. When you get right down to it, Nadal has one great shot (his forehand), he runs like mad, and is as good a match player as Borg and Gonzales were. But what after that? Can Nadal improve his backhand?...doubt it....can he serve better?...possibly...can he become a net player?...no chance....what are his options tactically?...better ask Toni...I can't think of anything that will make a difference against Nole.

I can't wait for their next showdown, though...I really can't. I know JY can't either

[bman]

Here's another simple point on why Djok beats Nadal but Fed doesn't: Joker doesn't miss rally balls. Fed does.

[tennis_chiro]

What could Rafa do?

I think Doug is right when he says everyone else has learnt from Djokovic. Not only has he given the others belief, but he's shown them the way, too. Funny how when you watch someone else achieve something you've never been able to, it suddenly feels doable for you too. This happens in all walks of life, not just tennis.

What fascinates me is what Uncle Toni is going to come up with to combat things. When you get right down to it, Nadal has one great shot (his forehand), he runs like mad, and is as good a match player as Borg and Gonzales were. But what after that? Can Nadal improve his backhand?...doubt it....can he serve better?...possibly...can he become a net player?...no chance....what are his options tactically?...better ask Toni...I can't think of anything that will make a difference against Nole.

I can't wait for their next showdown, though...I really can't. I know JY can't either

I think Nadal can improve the penetration of his forehand a little bit. The backhand is a very sound stroke. I think he could take the ball early with the backhand and take it off the court with a relatively flat drive on some of the deuce corner balls he runs around to hit heavy forehands; that would open up the court for him a little bit. And he has shown that he can serve much bigger than he did at the end of the year. The problem with all of this is not the ability to hit these shots; it is a complete shift in mindset away from what he has been doing for almost 20 years! Such a change is difficult to say the least, but possible; but only with the deepest commitment to that change. I think, if Rafa wants to be a legitimate contender for dominance again, he has to do that; but it will take tremendous emotional strength to make that commitment. Seeing Rafa in that press conference after his loss in Shanghai (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/M...iew-Nadal.aspx), I don't think he is satisfied with being just "one of the guys". When he is playing well (according to him), he expects to be very good. But it would take a sacrifice in some short term results for a few months to execute such a change. It's doubtful that anyone would be able to do it or even risk such a change. I hope he does. I think he might.

don

[don_budge]

What was he smoking? Jetlag?

Let's hear your thoughts on Mats Wilander's interview on "Novak Djokovic".

That's my fellow Swede! I like Mats...always have. What's not to like? Such a nice guy...and a great, great champion. His Davis Cup match vs. John McEnroe in 1982 was one of the most fantastic matches I have ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkqRKwW4ao&feature=related

The interview? Wilander seemed a bit out of focus. A bit bizarre...but pretty cool. Hitting balls into the stands? He didn't really mean that, I am certain. Or did he? Perhaps he smoked his lunch. He was sort of rambling...it seemed to me.

One of his first comments was about the improved serve...which is something that I suggested when we talked of his "Meteoric Rise". The other thing he sort of mysteriously mentions and dances around is Djokovic's "mind set" and his "mood" swings...what was that about? Is Novak on some sort of "medication"?

Great that you got the chance to meet him and interview him, John. I would love to have the chance to ask him a few questions myself.

[stotty]

I think Nadal can improve the penetration of his forehand a little bit. The backhand is a very sound stroke. I think he could take the ball early with the backhand and take it off the court with a relatively flat drive on some of the deuce corner balls he runs around to hit heavy forehands; that would open up the court for him a little bit. And he has shown that he can serve much bigger than he did at the end of the year. The problem with all of this is not the ability to hit these shots; it is a complete shift in mindset away from what he has been doing for almost 20 years! Such a change is difficult to say the least, but possible; but only with the deepest commitment to that change. I think, if Rafa wants to be a legitimate contender for dominance again, he has to do that; but it will take tremendous emotional strength to make that commitment. Seeing Rafa in that press conference after his loss in Shanghai (http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/M...iew-Nadal.aspx), I don't think he is satisfied with being just "one of the guys". When he is playing well (according to him), he expects to be very good. But it would take a sacrifice in some short term results for a few months to execute such a change. It's doubtful that anyone would be able to do it or even risk such a change. I hope he does. I think he might.

don

At Wimbledon, Nadal hits the ball pretty flat on his backhand side. I have only seen him play on grass so cannot comment on the amount of spin he hits on his B/H on other surfaces. At Wimbledon, hitting the flatter backhand did him little good against Djokovic. Maybe he could take it earlier and that may help, but it isn't much to go on when you consider the gap between the two players Djokovic right now. And that's the thing...Djokovic is soooo much better as things stand at the moment.

[tennis_chiro]

Joker is King

At Wimbledon, Nadal hits the ball pretty flat on his backhand side. I have only seen him play on grass so cannot comment on the amount of spin he hits on his B/H on other surfaces. At Wimbledon, hitting the flatter backhand did him little good against Djokovic. Maybe he could take it earlier and that may help, but it isn't much to go on when you consider the gap between the two players Djokovic right now. And that's the thing...Djokovic is soooo much better as things stand at the moment.

I agree with you. (Djokovic is a level ahead right now, except for what I saw from Murray in the Tokyo final against Nadal. It would be different with Nole, but I sure would like to see the match with them both playing well.) But Nadal is just 25 and he should be in his best years. And he might be better at what he used to do, but it simply is not enough anymore. I think it is more than lipservice when he talks about hard work and trying to get better. But he needs a true "paradigm shift" to even have a chance to get back to the top again. In some ways, that comeback would be even tougher than the one Agassi made before his second run at the top of the game. Nadal is already doing "all the right things" (at least in some respects). Agassi wasn't. And it will take longer than the break from Davis Cup to the Australian. There is going to have to be some pain and some losses for that change to come about.

I think Nadal gets dismissed a little bit as a "plodder", but I think there is much more to him. And perhaps to Uncle Toni.

It will be very interesting to see.

don

[GeoffWilliams]

It's called improve your first serve and first forehand. He can't win any free points now.

[don_budge]

Mats vs. Mac...on a more lucid day

That's my fellow Swede! I like Mats...always have. What's not to like? Such a nice guy...and a great, great champion. His Davis Cup match vs. John McEnroe in 1982 was one of the most fantastic matches I have ever seen.

Here's a youtube clip of Mats vs. Mac in 1982...the Swedish tennis phenomenon was in full bloom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZkqRKwW4ao&feature=related

One subtle note here. These were the days when the game was transitioning in the equipment. Mats is playing with a slightly oversized Rossignal while Mac is playing with a Dunlop Maxply Fort that Dunlop made specifically for him...the McFort. This frame was possibly incrementally smaller than say, for instance, a Wilson Kramer. Possibly advantage Wilander...however slight, over the course of this seven hour match.


Here's another clip from Wimbledon...same two players. McEnroe has changed to the Dunlop midsized, at last realizing that he cannot afford to give away anything to the guys on the tier below him. Lots of subtlety in the play. Delicate shots. Don't you think so? Compared to, for instance, Djokovic vs. Nadal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b6Tf6EsiKU&NR=1

(check out the points at 4:00 and 6:00 in the Wimbledon clip...the brilliance of McEnroe!)

I can appreciate the discussions about Djokovic and Nadal but to me there is something really lacking. Tactically speaking...there isn't much to talk about in comparison to Wilander and McEnroe. Perhaps that is why Mats appears to be so unfocused during the interview...he's bored.

Compare the contrast to today's tennis. Which do you feel is more entertaining, more interesting, more cerebral, more artistic? Be honest.

[stotty]

Great clips to watch. My how the game changes! Yes, I love the subtle stuff played back then. Interesting how the players return serve mostly with the intention of getting the "ball into the feet" of the incoming player, then try to work out the point from there. These days its thumped straight passed anyone who dares come in, no working out ways to get past a volleyer...just thump!

But I find today's tennis equally compelling, just different. The power and athleticism is astounding, and rallies can be riveting to watch, especially where the top 4 are concerned.

Getting back on thread: I think tennis_chiro is right when he says Nadal will have to sacrifice wins in the short term to start to develop a game to play Djokovic; and now Murray who's learnt from Djokovic. I seem to remember reading Lew Hoad sacrificed 6 months (losing matches he would not have) to develop a better topspin backhand to be able to take on Gonzales. It worked.

Nadal has no option. He's at an impasse. It's change or sink. The big concern is whether he can change his mentality, his instincts...they are so deep rooted...he'll find it the biggest challenge in his career thus far.