When Should Reality Set In??

[llll]

ive been playing now 10 years. im 58.
my goal was to play with the A players at the club around my age
4.5 -5.0
i joined a club the has a succesfull usta 4.0 and 4.5 mens team
ie they win their region often occasionally win state
ive managed to get into the saturday morning doubles with them

ive arranged some doubles clinics where even the 4.5 guys were eager to participate (more because who else was there .im a realist not because of me . and the pro who runs it is a doubles specialist)

ive improved to where im not at the bottom of the barrel on saturday mornings although i still play 2 of the rounds on the bottom court and will get an occasional upper court round with a 4.5 and me against another 4.5 and someone like me

i play singles on sundays against some of the guys
and have improved from bagles /6-1
to many 6-3 /6-4 matches

on tuesdays and thursdays i take a lesson

but they still are better , they can break down my backhand
when i play with a stronger player i can do my part poaching and putting away volleys but still sometime i cant FINISH the point when i should
ill hit a forcing shot but its still afew shots before the point is over


should i stop beating my head against the wall???

should i accept that god gave me just so much talent, i started late, i only have so much time to practice and forget about lessons and trying to improve ???

im getting alittle frustrated going out all the time and losing or not being asked to make the team

yet when i play down there is no satisfaction in beating a lesser opponent

im more proud ot the 2 sets and one tiebreaker ive won over two years aginst one of the guys i play quite often in singles

this thread is as much for my psychotherapy to just get this off my chest

but i really would like some constructive comments

[tennis_chiro]

Advantages and Disadvantages

For years, I had to handicap players or at least recommend handicaps for players who were going to play in the Huggy Bears tournament. Some of our amateurs were asked to donate as much as $25,000 to get a spot to play in the tournament; but that was after I had cleared them as playing well enough to not embarrass themselves. They were asking to play in an event where their team (mostly the pro partner) could win up to $140,000. Some of these people were very successful and accomplished individuals who routinely would play doubles a couple of hours a day all summer long with 2 and sometimes even 3 paid pros to provide them with a good challenge and a great learning experience at a cost of a couple of hundred dollars per hour (and that was before the gambling comes into play.) Yes, people in the Hamptons have too much money! They were convinced they were holding up their own end in their doubles games. Of course, the pros were laughing all the way to the bank. And sometimes, I had to give them the bad news: we couldn't give them enough free points to make them competitive.

It really comes down to the 5year/10 year or 5000 hour/10000 hour rule. You have to play 5000 hours to become a player and 10000 hours to become a champion. And that is tough hours and it can't be over a 20 year period of time. You can go out and play 5000 hours in your 30s or 40s (2 hours a day/6 days a week/50 weeks a year for 8 years) and become a very good senior player. But when your buddy who played Div I tennis and is in poor shape decides to practice four times a week for 3 weeks and get his two mile run down to 16 or 17 minutes, he is going to piss you off no end, because he will rediscover skills you can only dream about. And just like they talk about these great pro players having experienced playing in later rounds of Grand Slam tournaments, the former tournament players who are probably making up the bulk of your 4.5 players in your club, have match experience which you are just beginning to acquire.

If you want to compete, you have to play matches, as well as practice. I started late. I got cut from the JV High School tennis team my junior year, the first year I went out for the tennis team. The next couple of years I played every match I could. I would enter three tournaments in one weekend: juniors, C's, D's; it didn't matter, because I always got pounded. I must have been stubborn. Oh, I made the team my senior year in high school (#2) and my college team as a freshman (#3), but I couldn't compete with the good players. My sophomore year in college (3 years after getting cut from the tennis team), I started to learn to win. My junior year I won against a Div II national champ and was something like 21-3 in dual match play at #1(including UCIrvine, Pepperdine, Air Force, SanDiego State, CalPolySLO). But when I was a junior in high school, I wondered if I would ever be able to win a "D" tournament (probably the equivalent of 3.5). I looked with awe on the B players. I didn't even dare to think about playing in the open division. And I probably looked equal to the task if not superior when we were warming up. But I didn't know how to compete.


IIII, if you really want to compete, you have to go out and enter some tournaments (3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, whatever is right for you - if you can't win half your matches, it's probably too tough a division for you). Try to play at least 1/3 of the time up, 1/3 of the time equal and 1/3 of the time down (not too much). You have to learn to finish and win and build some confidence too.

One of the great things about your situation is, your best tennis is still probably ahead of you. My best tennis was in my 20's. I didn't learn to hit a forehand correctly until I was almost 50 and I can still work on various aspects of my technique; but I simply can't do what I could do physically in my 20's (or 40s for that matter anymore). I constantly learn more and more about the game, but I just can't apply it for myself; that's a little frustrating.

So get that pro that's working with you twice a week to earn your patronage; have him help you make a developmental plan. Develop some short, medium and long term process goals as well as outcome goals (if you really want to get better, it has to include some fitness guidelines). Set up a schedule of which tournaments you will play and figure out a training cycle to peak for different parts of the year. If you really want to compete with those top guys in your early Saturday morning round robins, the guys who "just seem to know how to play", you have to become one of the guys who "knows how to play".

Two lessons a week and a couple of sessions of practice and match play is admirable and you most likely are improving. But if you really want to be a player, and you are not physically impaired, there is no reason you cannot become a "player". And there will be plenty of opportunity for you to compete the next 25 years in all the USTA age division senior events.

good luck,
don
PS I hope to hear what you decide to do!

[llll]

For years, I had to handicap players or at least recommend handicaps for players who were going to play in the Huggy Bears tournament. Some of our amateurs were asked to donate as much as $25,000 to get a spot to play in the tournament; but that was after I had cleared them as playing well enough to not embarrass themselves. They were asking to play in an event where their team (mostly the pro partner) could win up to $140,000. Some of these people were very successful and accomplished individuals who routinely would play doubles a couple of hours a day all summer long with 2 and sometimes even 3 paid pros to provide them with a good challenge and a great learning experience at a cost of a couple of hundred dollars per hour (and that was before the gambling comes into play.) Yes, people in the Hamptons have too much money! They were convinced they were holding up their own end in their doubles games. Of course, the pros were laughing all the way to the bank. And sometimes, I had to give them the bad news: we couldn't give them enough free points to make them competitive.

It really comes down to the 5year/10 year or 5000 hour/10000 hour rule. You have to play 5000 hours to become a player and 10000 hours to become a champion. And that is tough hours and it can't be over a 20 year period of time. You can go out and play 5000 hours in your 30s or 40s (2 hours a day/6 days a week/50 weeks a year for 8 years) and become a very good senior player. But when your buddy who played Div I tennis and is in poor shape decides to practice four times a week for 3 weeks and get his two mile run down to 16 or 17 minutes, he is going to piss you off no end, because he will rediscover skills you can only dream about. And just like they talk about these great pro players having experienced playing in later rounds of Grand Slam tournaments, the former tournament players who are probably making up the bulk of your 4.5 players in your club, have match experience which you are just beginning to acquire.

If you want to compete, you have to play matches, as well as practice. I started late. I got cut from the JV High School tennis team my junior year, the first year I went out for the tennis team. The next couple of years I played every match I could. I would enter three tournaments in one weekend: juniors, C's, D's; it didn't matter, because I always got pounded. I must have been stubborn. Oh, I made the team my senior year in high school (#2) and my college team as a freshman (#3), but I couldn't compete with the good players. My sophomore year in college (3 years after getting cut from the tennis team), I started to learn to win. My junior year I won against a Div II national champ and was something like 21-3 in dual match play at #1(including UCIrvine, Pepperdine, Air Force, SanDiego State, CalPolySLO). But when I was a junior in high school, I wondered if I would ever be able to win a "D" tournament (probably the equivalent of 3.5). I looked with awe on the B players. I didn't even dare to think about playing in the open division. And I probably looked equal to the task if not superior when we were warming up. But I didn't know how to compete.


IIII, if you really want to compete, you have to go out and enter some tournaments (3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, whatever is right for you - if you can't win half your matches, it's probably too tough a division for you). Try to play at least 1/3 of the time up, 1/3 of the time equal and 1/3 of the time down (not too much). You have to learn to finish and win and build some confidence too.

One of the great things about your situation is, your best tennis is still probably ahead of you. My best tennis was in my 20's. I didn't learn to hit a forehand correctly until I was almost 50 and I can still work on various aspects of my technique; but I simply can't do what I could do physically in my 20's (or 40s for that matter anymore). I constantly learn more and more about the game, but I just can't apply it for myself; that's a little frustrating.

So get that pro that's working with you twice a week to earn your patronage; have him help you make a developmental plan. Develop some short, medium and long term process goals as well as outcome goals (if you really want to get better, it has to include some fitness guidelines). Set up a schedule of which tournaments you will play and figure out a training cycle to peak for different parts of the year. If you really want to compete with those top guys in your early Saturday morning round robins, the guys who "just seem to know how to play", you have to become one of the guys who "knows how to play".

Two lessons a week and a couple of sessions of practice and match play is admirable and you most likely are improving. But if you really want to be a player, and you are not physically impaired, there is no reason you cannot become a "player". And there will be plenty of opportunity for you to compete the next 25 years in all the USTA age division senior events.

good luck,
don
PS I hope to hear what you decide to do!

i REALLY appreciate your post
its given me encouragement at a time im alittle down
prior to this my lesson time to play time was 80/20
thinking i had to learn "correct technique" and not ingrain bad habits
but i lacked playing time
i am now trying to change that
and im trying to play different opponents
especially those where i have a chance to win

[gzhpcu]

Though as you can see that I am slowing down, for about 30 years, I was playing almost daily, averaging 20 hours of tennis a week. Very little training, just match play against about 15 different guys. I was also playing about 2 tournaments a month, all year around.
You need lots of tournament play to build up confidence. A good mix is to play with about 1/3 weaker than you, 1/3 your strength, and 1/3 stronger than you. Nothing beats competition, IMHO.
I beat lots of players who looked great in the warmup, and then fell apart in match play. Rally queens. Some of the toughest opponents are those with ugly strokes but fighting spirit. You need to play opponents who play junk ball tennis as well as clean tennis.
Don't be discouraged: play more matches, play tournaments...

[GeoffWilliams]

The pure know there is no such thing as purity. There has never been a match with perfect shots and there never will be one. That would be a never ending aces only match! The joy of playing comes to those who enjoy improving. That's why folks pay for this site. Video yourself and vow to improve off the comparisons.

[johnyandell]

I agree with Don completely. Variety of opponents and under various degrees of pressure is key. Lansdorp would only give kids one hour a week and if they came back and weren't implementing in play what he taught them, kick them off the court. Doesn't really matter what you do on the teaching court if you can't own it in play.

The whole ratings thing has become a joke. Out here we've got former D1 players playing 4.0. So don't get hung up on the numbers. I never liked to play more a few practice matches with the same guy--it becomes predictable and unreal compared to the pressures of competition. Try to expand who you play in practice as much as possible.

[llll]

i appreciate all the responces
thanks
hey john in phils ( gzhpcu) thread rallying crosscourt
he lamented about hes the only one who shows his "stuff"
i recently sent you my strokes
please do a "your strokes " on one or some of them or post them for me so i can get the feedback
(obviously the only correct answer is what you told me on the phone)

[gzhpcu]

You don't want to upload it on YouTube? You can set the parameters so that only persons who have a direct link (which you can post) can see it. If you need help, let me know.... (am leaving tomorrow for a week to New York... hope I can survive the shopping, my wife and her sister will be doing...)

[llll]

You don't want to upload it on YouTube? You can set the parameters so that only persons who have a direct link (which you can post) can see it. If you need help, let me know.... (am leaving tomorrow for a week to New York... hope I can survive the shopping, my wife and her sister will be doing...)

i dont know how to do that
why dont you leave the ladies in new york and fly down to fl. for the weekend?? we could play tennis and work on our pro drop serve positions?

[johnyandell]

I've got the miniDV tape. I can send it back to you. No time to capture the files now but might do a your strokes for next month.

[llll]

I've got the miniDV tape. I can send it back to you. No time to capture the files now but might do a your strokes for next month.

john keep the tape i can always film another
but if you want to do a your strokes that would be really cool

[don_budge]

When should reality set in? Answer: ASAP!

Dear Larry...

Reality? Which one? To which your answer must be...there is only one reality. The truth.

“Reality? I am REALITY!”...Sgt. Barnes (Tom Berenger), from the movie Platoon.

“You can’t handle TRUTH!”...Col. Jessep (Jack Nicholson), from the movie A Few Good Men.

Let’s face it Larry...we are not getting any younger. To be a competitive tennis player is a full time commitment...and then some. This kind of commitment includes an attitude that basically is about as selfish as it gets. No person can get in your way...you must be willing to spare no expense in terms of money and time. Forget about the wife and kids. If you want to be a winner you sort of have to have to a high disregard for others and be prepared for others to think of you as some kind of lunatic on some crazy mission. If you are prepared to make this kind of commitment and sacrifice...I would still advise you to modify your goals and your expectations. You are too old...and if it makes you feel any better so am I.

At our age playing tennis overly competitively doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in any respect. Our bodies have definitely seen better days for one...and two...and three...to infinity. The kind of demand that tennis puts on your body makes it basically a young mans game which sort of leaves us out of that picture. But that is not to say that you should quit playing tennis or stop trying to improve. You merely have to change the way you are looking at things...you need a change of perspective.

Why not reconsider things a bit? After all, what is so important about beating this guy or that guy at our stage of the game...the game of life, that is. The answer to this question is nothing...at this point whether we win or lose is pretty near as irrelevant as it gets. Don’t worry about it. As tennis_chiro has suggested to you, learning the path of competitive tennis is a long and arduous road and I hate to be the one to break it to you...you don’t have the time or the energy. Guys that used to be competitive tennis players have forgotten more about what it takes than you will ever learn about it seeing as you started at the age of 48. Reality? Are you with me so far?

Realistically speaking it may be more fulfilling and enjoyable for you to pursue tennis as a hobby with as much or little passion as you decide. Take a page out of bottle’s book...do it for yourself...for your own personal enjoyment. Be happy with that...why not? Perhaps you can help out in the junior program at your club or you may be able to start a program in your community for junior players. Train to be an ATP umpire or a racquet stringer. Use your imagination, be creative...reinvent yourself. I am sure that you can make a meaningful contribution is some regard related to tennis...if you choose to. A contribution that won’t leaving you banging your head against the wall in frustration and for no good reason. We need people like you.

Tennis should be your therapy, llll...in my opinion, and there is no better therapy for anger, frustration, grief, or the rest of the long list of madness and maladies that plague us in the modern world than going out and banging the ball against the wall (instead of your head) for an hour or working out with a partner on the tennis court for a couple of hours. It’s not about winning or losing anymore...it’s about being satisfied and feeling good. Be healthy, be happy. Don’t waste your time, energy and other resources knocking yourself out worrying about winning a given tennis match....branch out a bit. Expand. Why not take up Latin dancing? A little salsa...cha cha cha!

Besides...you are too nice a guy, Larry. Tennis players must be willing to give their grandmother’s a good kick in the shins if it means the difference between winning or losing a tennis match. Does that sound like you? I didn’t think so. Be content with your doubles leagues and your lessons and your practice. By the way, I would cut back on the lessons because I think that pro is doing it the good old American way...he is separating you from your money. I guarantee you that if you post your videos here on the forum...the guys here on the forum will give you all of the feedback and ideas that you will need for the way forward. You can count on us to give you our two cents worth...for free.

I used to be a competitive tennis player much like tennis_chiro...and then I quit the game for fifteen years. It was the smartest thing that I ever did...to get away from it. Never played again. It gets a bit crazy...you know. Like an aging chocolate labrador that doesn’t know when to quit chasing a ball...it is almost a little unseemly past a certain age. By leaving the game and returning after a long absence I have rediscovered my love for the game in different terms and in a different capacity...and believe me it is not playing competitively. That’s my reality...though. I don’t know what those other guys have been smoking to suggest to you otherwise.

Signed

Dr. don_budge (Tennis Therapist)

[llll]

i appreciate all the replies so far
keep them coming if anyone has something to say
since this thread ive had the occasion to play in some groups i hadnt played in in along while
i was VERY comfortable among players that in the past would always be an upstream battle for me
this was among a group of older players so perhaps their skills have diminished since i played among them 2 years ago
but it was a barometer on progress.
ive decided to continue to be the best i can be
regardless of who i beat and where in the usta rankings i end up

with regards to the 10,000 hour rule
WHEN IM SEVENTY

WATCH OUT
larry

[johnyandell]

A good plan in my opinion.

[tennis_chiro]

never give in!

i appreciate all the replies so far
keep them coming if anyone has something to say
since this thread ive had the occasion to play in some groups i hadnt played in in along while
i was VERY comfortable among players that in the past would always be an upstream battle for me
this was among a group of older players so perhaps their skills have diminished since i played among them 2 years ago
but it was a barometer on progress.
ive decided to continue to be the best i can be
regardless of who i beat and where in the usta rankings i end up

with regards to the 10,000 hour rule
WHEN IM SEVENTY

WATCH OUT
larry

I love it! Never give in! Just enjoy the journey along the way.
don