Serve Analysis - pictures included, more to follow soon

[westcoast777]

Aid me in evaluating my serve. The pictures are from a high school league match I played in about a month and a half ago.
I have since changed my serve drastically, opting for the models of Pete Sampras and Roger Federer over my previous sliding pinpoint with minimal turn away from the court. After working consistently for the past month my new serve has just reached the level of spin and pace generated by my former serve, I am hoping to continue improving.
I didn't get a chance to go out to the courts and film today due to rain. Tomorrow, if I get the chance to film, I will post a current serve video as well as the footage from the league match. Until then please provide guidance on the posted pictures and evaluate the racket drop, body position, off arm, etc.
Thanks.

[gzhpcu]

Very good racket drop. The pictures look good to me. Looking forward to seeing your video...

[westcoast777]

Video

The video, finally.
Here is a first serve, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAf84g0NHE
And a second serve, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHyY5...el_video_title
Still a work in progress, of course, but it's developing nicely. I've fixed the landing position of the right foot in the court. It now points at the net, perpendicular to the baseline upon landing.
Please let me know what you think + suggestions.
Also any advice on uploading in slow motion with quicktime - the videos were shot at a frame rate that would allow this.
Thanks.

[don_budge]

Beginner?

I understand that you are fairly new to the game. Nice lefty motion. Smooth out that backswing just a bit. Practice, practice, practice. No more computer games. Tennis is reality based, stick with it. With some work you will give your opponents a lot of fits in the future. Check out the Stan Smith thread and his video about the possibilities...regards location, spin, speed etc. Learn to serve like a baseball pitcher right off the bat...tactically speaking.

Develop a nice topspin forehand and an exceptional one handed underspin backhand, think McEnroe (which will enable you to volley, lob, dropshot, move your opponent around the court, play with touch, neutralize two handed backhands) and those should be reasonable goals for your first year of play.

The topspin backhand is in your future.

[gzhpcu]

Looks pretty nice to me. Nice toss motion. Good swing speed.

[tennis_chiro]

Nice motion

Looks like a pretty good motion to me. Like Don_Budge, I think you could smooth out the backswing. There are actually two parts to your backswing; that is, there are two accelerations before you actually hit up at the ball. I think you would do a little better if you smoothed the first two parts into one as you loaded the right side. More importantly, as you are doing that, you need to create more of an upward tilt of your shoulders before you hit up at the ball. Yours are just a little above horizontal. You don't have to go to 90 degrees like Sampras, but a young fellow like you can get a lot more. This is related to that loading of the right side. You have a nice rhythm; be sure you maintain that and interlock the weight transfer and the toss of the ball; don't get too wrapped up in the knee bend and lose that nice rhythm that you've got.

Good luck
don

[don_budge]

Looks like a pretty good motion to me. Like Don_Budge, I think you could smooth out the backswing. There are actually two parts to your backswing; that is, there are two accelerations before you actually hit up at the ball. I think you would do a little better if you smoothed the first two parts into one as you loaded the right side. More importantly, as you are doing that, you need to create more of an upward tilt of your shoulders before you hit up at the ball. Yours are just a little above horizontal. You don't have to go to 90 degrees like Sampras, but a young fellow like you can get a lot more. This is related to that loading of the right side. You have a nice rhythm; be sure you maintain that and interlock the weight transfer and the toss of the ball; don't get too wrapped up in the knee bend and lose that nice rhythm that you've got.

Good luck
don

Coach Don...do you mean left side?

WestCoast...do you throw left or right?

[westcoast777]

I throw with my right...but I've tried throwing left and it's a fairly natural motion - I would say ambidextrous for throwing if I practiced throwing with my left.

[don_budge]

Two forehands?

I wonder if the game is ready for a player playing two forehands. When I first started playing...I would switch hit and played two forehands. Until my coach asked me to serve and for some reason I wanted to serve left handed...which was a bit strange because I throw right handed. This determined that I would play the game left handed. No regrets...I think it is an advantage.

But no...I think two forehands would be a little too unorthodox, being a traditional guy.

My advice to you is this. Really develop that serve into a first class weapon. Develop a good sound forehand and it should not be too "wristy"...learn how to delay your wrist action until the racquet head tells it to slam the door. Begin with an underspin backhand with all of the shots...as I mentioned earlier, but at the same time learn about the action that is required to hit the topspin. You cannot go wrong in this regard.

Don't let the other guys outwork you WestCoast...that was Tiger's motto.

[westcoast777]

Check out the Stan Smith thread and his video about the possibilities...regards location, spin, speed etc. Learn to serve like a baseball pitcher right off the bat...tactically speaking.

Sorry, couldn't find the thread, could you provide the link?

Thank you for the advice.

[westcoast777]

An interesting observation that I believe is related to the unnatural take-back, which may be robbing me of inches+ on my r/drop.
Notice that Federer achieves an upright position of the racket and as the racket drops the face opens slightly. The same can be observed in the motion of Sampras. In fact, Pete opens the face of his racket going into the drop more than any server I've seen. Unfortunately, my racket reaches a nearly vertical position is the trophy position (p1) like Federer, but going into the drop (p2) stays closed. My serve vs Fed - photobucket.com/servingfederer
Pete: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...as1stServe.mov
Is this significant?

[westcoast777]

Additional views of the servers in the tennisplayer Highspeed archives confirms that other pro servers are reaching this vertical position and then opening the face of the racket slightly into the drop.

[tennis_chiro]

He's serving left-handed

Coach Don...do you mean left side?

WestCoast...do you throw left or right?

No, I mean load into the front side and then go up unleashing like a bow. And he is serving left-handed. So it is load the right side. His left shoulder will be loaded as he gets ready to fire up, but the right side of his body should be loaded down to the right foot in a classic motion. Even in a platform stance, most of the weight will be on the net side of the body as you go up to the serve.

don

[westcoast777]

Highspeed footage

Just filmed in the backyard - had to try filming in high-speed immediately. I've worked on smoothing out the backswing, please let me know what you think. I'll be out at the courts tomorrow to film. For now, any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.
Current serve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kCA2CETue0
June 21st serve: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nAf8...eature=related
Thanks

[westcoast777]

More importantly, as you are doing that, you need to create more of an upward tilt of your shoulders before you hit up at the ball. Yours are just a little above horizontal. You don't have to go to 90 degrees like Sampras, but a young fellow like you can get a lot more. This is related to that loading of the right side. You have a nice rhythm; be sure you maintain that and interlock the weight transfer and the toss of the ball; don't get too wrapped up in the knee bend and lose that nice rhythm that you've got.

Good luck
don

Agreed. The Federer model does a far better job loading the off-arm. Once I fix the backswing my focus will turn to working on the off-arm. Thank you.