Can you spot the problem on this serve?

[stotty]

Here is G. He's been posted on Tennisplayer before, and to great effect. He now has a great forehand thanks to a collaboration of coaches which included Don, Jperedo, 10splayer, Oliensis ...to name a few. If there is one thing better than a good coach, it's a group of good coaches working together.

Here is G again. This time with service problems that need a little help. I sent a clip to Brian Gordon a few months ago who emailed back back with suggests. Top of the list was making him more linear by sorting out his dropped elbow. This is much better now (though it still drops slightly).

The current problem is a lack of spin and power. I feel the racket face may be a little too open (tray technique). I feel there a couple of other problems, too, but I'd like others to comment on what they see rather than give coaches clues. I would really like to see if others concur with my findings.

I hope some of you will jump in and add your two cents. I've learnt a lot thru Tennisplayer, both thru all John's articles and video footage....and thru the forum, chatting with other coaches.

Below are three clips. They all look ok. But he lacks power and has no second serve.

(Message for Don: G has been out of action with an impinged shoulder for 2 months so unable to hit serves or smashes. Hence I haven't come back to you...and obviously little has changed in his serve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_BaQECUHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxv7MB9IF5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LocrAFGo4

[tennis_chiro]

Pretty good motion

Here is G. He's been posted on Tennisplayer before, and to great effect. He now has a great forehand thanks to a collaboration of coaches which included Don, Jperedo, 10splayer, Oliensis ...to name a few. If there is one thing better than a good coach, it's a group of good coaches working together.

Here is G again. This time with service problems that need a little help. I sent a clip to Brian Gordon a few months ago who emailed back back with suggests. Top of the list was making him more linear by sorting out his dropped elbow. This is much better now (though it still drops slightly).

The current problem is a lack of spin and power. I feel the racket face may be a little too open (tray technique). I feel there a couple of other problems, too, but I'd like others to comment on what they see rather than give coaches clues. I would really like to see if others concur with my findings.

I hope some of you will jump in and add your two cents. I've learnt a lot thru Tennisplayer, both thru all John's articles and video footage....and thru the forum, chatting with other coaches.

Below are three clips. They all look ok. But he lacks power and has no second serve.

(Message for Don: G has been out of action with an impinged shoulder for 2 months so unable to hit serves or smashes. Hence I haven't come back to you...and obviously little has changed in his serve)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw_BaQECUHo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxv7MB9IF5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0LocrAFGo4

Stotty,
the motion looks pretty good. I think he could go up a little more, but the part that bothers me just a little is the rhythm. It seems like he has a little bit of fast/slow/fast. My sense is that if he slowed down just a bit at the beginning and synchronised the backswing a little more to the toss, he would end up bringing the racket head into the "pro drop" a little later with a little more momentum that would get him deeper and generate more power. I realize he has a bit of a staggered rhythm, but if he's really going to do a "stagger", then I think (and I'm really not sure about this), that he has to delay the racket a little more and really separate it from the toss and then have the racket head have to catch up which would throw him into the "pro drop" (I don't like back scratch) with a little more load.

Also, on the going up, when the kids start using that knee bend, they often don't get back up. I try to get them to think in terms of bending a bow and then straightening it back out before they contact the ball. You would be able to see that better in the frame-by-frame replay on your camera.

all the best,
don

PS What did I tell you about the serve last time? I don't remember.

[llll]

his left arm is not straight up so he doesnt stretch the left side of his body enough (archers bow)
his toss is a little jerky
he could coil away from the net alittle more in the beginning
his ball toss location for contact is not foward enough
he lands inside the baseline

[bman]

up on his toes too early

[westcoast777]

I caught a lucky pause on the video and it revealed a subpar racket drop. This explains the lack of spin and power.
Unfortunately, I lack the experience to point out what exactly is limiting the racket drop, sorry

[westcoast777]

Here again on another serve

[llll]

I caught a lucky pause on the video and it revealed a subpar racket drop. This explains the lack of spin and power.
Unfortunately, I lack the experience to point out what exactly is limiting the racket drop, sorry

how maqny think this is "subpar"???

[westcoast777]

Perhaps subpar is too harsh of a word choice, but the racket drop could certainly be improved, I believe.

[don_budge]

I'm with Don...Plus, just one thing

Just a couple of things...

First of all, I would say for his age (how old?) he looks like he has a very fine basis for the service motion. Nice long backswing and most importantly, a nice big loop behind his back which is one of the biggest factors in developing a service motion.

You could leave it at that...there isn't anything really "wrong" with his motion but if he wants to improve I would suggest the following.

As Don suggests, it appears to me that his rhythm is less than optimal. He initiates his motion with a pull on the racquet whereas I like to see the motion initiated with a "dropping" of the racquet head. At the same time his throwing hand is in a funny position to begin with...but he corrects it in the middle of the motion as he correctly delivers the ball to serve it. Why not begin with the hand in the correct position, drop the racquet head and the rhythm issue is improved.

I don't care for his set up in the sense that it is a bit lackadaisical with little attention to his "aiming". Aiming is largely a product of setup as it is in the golf swing. Think, "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel. I realize that he is young and just "going through the motions" for the camera but with such a fine motion, if he is mature enough to start thinking about the more intricate aspects of the swing, so much the better.

Since his motion is very good as it stands I would recommend the Stan Smith video where he discusses the number of targets that one can envision when serving against an opponent. Once he understands the importance of the setup with regard to aiming and then begins to practice aiming his serve, I believe you will see significant improvement.

My recommendations are to scrutinize his setup, initiate the swing with a drop of the racquet head, practice serves with intent (aiming at targets) and begin to develop tactics when serving to different opponents.

I like the motion and wish that I had half a dozen in my program just like him.

[stotty]

Thanks for all your tips, everyone!

Here's G (aged 13) serving this morning. The ball toss is higher. The left arm is more extended upwards. He is trying to reach up more on contact.

Notice any improvement?

Westcoast, not sure what you mean by subpar racket drop. I always thought the r/drop was fine. Am I missing something?

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTennisexpert#p/a/u/0/6K_EaJvUFI4

[tennis_chiro]

Improving

Thanks for all your tips, everyone!

Here's G (aged 13) serving this morning. The ball toss is higher. The left arm is more extended upwards. He is trying to reach up more on contact.

Notice any improvement?

Westcoast, not sure what you mean by subpar racket drop. I always thought the r/drop was fine. Am I missing something?

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTenni.../0/6K_EaJvUFI4

I'd say it's developing nicely.
don

[llll]

Thanks for all your tips, everyone!

Here's G (aged 13) serving this morning. The ball toss is higher. The left arm is more extended upwards. He is trying to reach up more on contact.

Notice any improvement?

Westcoast, not sure what you mean by subpar racket drop. I always thought the r/drop was fine. Am I missing something?

http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTenni.../0/6K_EaJvUFI4

still think his left arm could be pointing more up to the sky to stretch his left side more

[don_budge]

Practice.

Practice, practice, practice.

[don_budge]

The ultimate personal indulgence...

Practice, practice, practice.

I have just quoted myself...that's weird. The ultimate personal literary indulgence. I don't know whether to congratulate myself or impale myself on my racquet. I pardon myself.

Anyways...this is an interesting video and it raises an interesting question.

My question is this. As you notice in the video, G's first move is to shift his weight from the left foot to the right foot and he does it by moving noticeably backwards. He even pulls his racquet in the same direction with his hand. My question is...is it more proper to shift the weight by making a horizontal move from front to back or is it better to shift it by making a slightly downward movement first (down together) and then lifting (up together) while turning the shoulders? Or is it a combination of making the two moves together creating a synergistic effect?

My initial feelings are that simpler is better. Less movement means less possible sources of error or miscalculation...in the wind or under pressure, for instance. Perhaps aiming is more precise with less movement as well. Think "Zen in the Art of Archery" by Eugen Herrigel.

From tennisplayer video...Sampras and Gonzales seem to make very little horizontal shift, while Federer and Becker seem to have a bit of this lateral movement characteristic of their motions. McEnroe's movement is really interesting because of his "tightrope balancing act" of a service setup position.

Regarding G...there is no downward move even with his tossing hand, which is curved inwards in the beginning and then manipulated to turn in the proper position during the toss btw, this is an indication, I believe, that he is not set up correctly to make the first move downward which may contribute to the perceived lack of rhythm...which may contribute to lack of power and spin, which were the original perceived deficiencies in his motion. In my opinion, there is no problem with his "racquet drop"...the loop that the racquet head creates behind his back is more than adequate. But that being said, even his drop might improve with a little more "down and up" movement. Great motion for a 13 year old, though!

The set up position for the serve rarely gets the attention it deserves. Too much is left up to individual interpretation which would account for many of the "funny" motions we see even on the pro tour. In golf, set up is everything...well at least it is a good beginning. The golf swing and the tennis serve are chain reaction movements and if you do not begin in the proper position you will have to make compensating moves...which are often the "Kiss of Death".

Down, lift and turn...with some allowances for individual interpretation. Sort of like "staying in the barrel" in golfspeak. Oh no, did I just answer my own question?

[stotty]

My question is this. As you notice in the video, G's first move is to shift his weight from the left foot to the right foot and he does it by moving noticeably backwards. He even pulls his racquet in the same direction with his hand. My question is...is it more proper to shift the weight by making a horizontal move from front to back or is it better to shift it by making a slightly downward movement first (down together) and then lifting (up together) while turning the shoulders? Or is it a combination of making the two moves together creating a synergistic effect?

G models his serve in Federer. His drooped racket starting position is similar to Fed and, of course, the similarity ends there.

The two initiating moves you suggest are merely choice and probably neither has benefit above the other. Or at least that's is what I feel.

For me, the trick now is give G more rhythm...and to get him to ease effectively into a loaded position. At the moment the downward swing is too quick and doesn't allow him to store elastic energy at the critical point. I want a slow "Newcomber style" build up and then BANG....