Kerry Mitchell's Serve Article

[tomsr]

BALL TOSS
Where do you lift the BALL , at 11:30, !2:00 or 12:30; and in what position relative to the baseline? Please advise.

[don_budge]

Good question...here we go again!

Bill Tilden on the toss-

Generally speaking-
It is wrong to hit at your toss...you should always toss at your swing.

Slice service-
As the racquet starts up, start the left hand holding the ball, up with it and from a point shoulder high toss the ball to a point as high as the racquet will comfortably reach, slightly to the right of the head and about eight inches forward, into the court.

Flat service-
...the ball is tossed directly over the head.

American twist or kick serve-
The ball is tossed to the left of the head and on a line parallel with it regards to the net.

These are good points to begin with...

[gzhpcu]

Here is a lengthy thread where we discussed the toss...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...ead.php?t=1702

[don_budge]

KISS...and where to toss the ball on the serve.

Keep It Simple Stupid...This a good place to exercise this little option. The discussion can get really ridiculous. Eight inches into the court may be short by todays standards, but then again you can resort to the "as far as the racquet will comfortably reach" option. As to which "o'clock" it depends upon what type of spin you are using.

KISS...KISS...KISS...KISS...KISS...KISS...KISS...K ISS...KISS...KISS...(my mantra)

Does this answer your question tomsr?

[kerrymitchell]

serve toss

Hi
Kerry here. I did not include too much in the article about the toss and its placement in coordination with the body, but I'll give my two cents now. Over the years (and many of you have already pointed out) the toss position has been a subject of much debate. Back in the early 80s it was all about the "kick" serve. Placing the toss behind your head to accentuate the upward brush of the ball to create top and side spin (ala Edberg), but the growing consensus today is to place the toss in a single position and then create the different types of serves, flat, slice, and kick (ala Federer). That position is in line with the angle of your shoulders. If you draw a straight line across the top of your shoulders (in the turn position-arms raised) that is where the toss should line up to (basically coming down on top of the front shoulder blade). Now the actual position should also be in front of the front shoulder, but how far? In the past the toss was positioned much further towards the net because players were serve and volleying more often. The jump was not only up but out towards the net as well. Now-a-days, the toss is still out front, but maybe not as far as a serve and volleryer.
The toss position will feel a bit behind your head, but if you think of the alignment of the swing pattern (right hand traveling over the top of the head) and what makes an efficient swing this is the optimum position for all types of serves. Of course, a player can place the toss even more behind the head to really kick the serve up and out, but it is not really that necessary if you have good shoulder rotation. The real key to serving, like all shots is excellent shoulder and hip rotation which then accelerates the arm through the path of the ball.
Good Luck,
Kerry.

[don_budge]

Simpler still....

That's what I like about Kerry....he keeps it nice and simple. One tossing position for all serves. Our conversations would be short and sweet.

Him..."The real key to serving, like all shots is excellent shoulder and hip rotation which then accelerates the arm through the path of the ball."

Me..."The real key to serving is a good setup, long and smooth backswing turning the body away from the ball, good alignment, then turning back accelerating the racquet through the ball."

Saying the same thing. Just a couple of simple guys...talking about serving. Not sure if I agree about the one toss position, but I think I understand why you say so. Nice article, Kerry...again.

[GeoffWilliams]

Not possible for one position to hit all types, esp. kick/twist which need to be behind your head and left shoulder with back to net. Even Sampras moved the ball over 6-12" for slice serves wide.

[kerrymitchell]

serve toss

Hi Kerry here again,
When I serve I use one basic toss and can hit all serves. Samparas rarely hit a kick serve (except on clay) and he did move his toss more left when he did it, but he grew up in the older thought process of serving. A lot of the movement (apparent) of the toss is done not by moving the toss but by rotating the shoulders more. When a player hits a kick serve the shoulders rotate more giving the appearance of toss movement. On a heavier spin serve the back is turned more towards the court thus making it necessary to reach behind the ball with the racket head to create the more excessive spin. Today's "flat" serve, I believe (and John could possibly verify), has a lot more spin rotational energy than previous generations because it has to. With the modern racket and the new strings, which are much livelier, there is a greater need to add more spin to all serves. In some ways that is what made (and make Federer's) serve so difficult to return is not the pace of it, but the "heaviness" (topspin quotient) of the serve. This is all done with shoulder rotation and not necessarily with toss movement.
Good Luck.
Kerry.