My Original Response to Rick Macci...
Below are the original comments that I wrote to RickMacci in response to his comments to my comments to his video of Development of the ATP Forehand. I pared them down because...get this...I didn't want to appear to be argumentative. For me it is never a case of being right and being wrong. My only reason for ever writing anything is to state my case of how I feel...in my own style and in my own words. I know my tone...I have to live with it.
But at any rate...here are my original thoughts. I am not rebuking RickMacci and the ATP Forehand but I am suggesting that there is a whole other realm of tennis that is being ignored with the conventional wisdom that passes for tennis development these days.
Why am I sharing this with you now? It started with the traditional game of tennis. Scott's articles about the Kirsten Popp classical game and that morphed with a comment by stroke which further provoked me. Then Stotty and 10splayer said something and then it was off to the races...who cares if he flips or not? tennis_chiro had/has his doubts. It has something to do with the comments made about Tommy Haas at the Sony Open and it has something to do with the comment that gordonp has made about John McEnroe. It has a lot to do with the year of 1984 in tennis and that dubious Wimbledon final...and it has a lot to do with George Orwell and his vision. I am thinking critically about the USPTA and all the authorities in our lives that have led us astray. It may have had something to do with klacr's comments about modesty...probably not. I don't entertain thoughts like those. I only try to connect the dots...the three little dots. Just like dear old Ferdinand Celine...in his "Journey to The End of the Night".
I ran my thoughts by bottle...aka John Escher (multiple author of published books and our resident literary expert and former Ivy League English professor) and he agreed (I hate that word) with me that it was good form to abbreviate my remarks in the ATP thread and to not appear to challenge RickMacci. But in the end (and this is the end my friends) we are stuck with who we are. An old leopard cannot change his spots...although I maintain that he can change the grip on his tennis racquet. I swear...I will never be put in a box of somebody else's making. I get tired of tippy toeing around everyone's issues...except for my own. Of which I never tire...of course. You are there and I am here.
My original and traditional thoughts to RickMacci's response regarding the continental grip. Read 'em and weep...I say. With all due respect.
Thanks Rick...I enjoyed your comments.
Thanks for your answer Rick. I totally understand your skepticism. But I watched John McEnroe and his continental grip based game dismantle Mats Wilander and his heavy topspin, strong gripped and standard issue two handed backhand in the Senior Tour Finals at London and he was asked after the interview if he thought that his style of play would be effective in the modern game of tennis and his answer was..."Yes"...if I am not mistaken. McEnroe himself thinks his approach to tennis is still relevant.
Even the announcers for this particular match were speculating about the court surface and how it would effect the fate of the match. Their rationale was that the surface was slower so that it should favor Wilander in that regard. But as it was the slower surface seemed to favor McEnroe ironically enough. It gave him a bit more time to maneuver Wilander around the court. In the end...Wilander was so thoroughly trounced that he ended up attempting to serve and volley. He said himself of McEnroe..."he has a way of making you feel terrible on the tennis court".
For the past several months I have been experimenting with the continental based ground stroke game, with the accompanying approach and volley game whenever possible, and I have had some very interesting results playing against much younger opponents using the current ATP style of play. Granted my experiment has been of a qualitative nature and not one supported by quantitative analysis but the results have been personally compelling. My conclusion is...I am not entirely convinced that the ATP Forehand is the only way to go here in the Modern Game of Tennis. Although you cannot argue with its' popularity.
I might add that I am a big admirer of the Federer technique as applied to the Modern Game of tennis and prior to my experiment with the continental grip I was pursuing my own play along those lines. I find the information that you are bringing forth on the ATP forehand to be very helpful and informative. It has only been recently that I rethought, retaught, relearned and retooled my game into its present continental gripped state.
The results that I speak of are of course personal in nature but I did try to document much of my experience in the two threads that I referenced. Due to their lengthy nature it is understandable if you didn't get a chance to peruse them. Your ATP Forehand video and the accompanying 3D Revolution thread provoked some rather curious thought within me. Albeit...my thoughts do not go lock step with the conventional wisdom that is taken for the basis of the technical philosophy for the Modern Game of Tennis as it stands today.
I understand everything that you have put forth so far and I have read Brian Gordon's articles about the same. Although Brian's stuff is far more technical and more difficult to interpret when discussing from a teaching point of view tennis technique...it is no less compelling. Brian even mentioned in a post that an explanation that I offered for the behavior of the biomechanics of the stroke were pretty good...even though they were so simple. Which is ok, I think...very technical material can be summed up quite simply sometimes thereby decreasing the risk of losing the students interest that are not so technically inclined.
So I have an idea for you and Brian to collaborate on in your spare time. Which I am certain is scarce...but what I propose is this. Measure quantifiably through the use of your electrodes and probes and computers the behavior of the wrist when it pertains to the differences in grip...western, eastern and the bane of modern coaches...the continental. Measure John McEnroe himself if that would be any help in furthering such a project or motivating one. He might be curious himself if this were to be proposed to him. Brian may find that this would be one of the most compelling studies ever done in tennis research. The Behavior of the Wrist and the Force that it Applies to the Ball as it Pertains to Different Grips on the Tennis Racquet. Do me a favor if you would...forward these thoughts to Brian. I wonder what his reaction would be. Would he altogether be dismissive or might he say to himself...Hmmm.
I cite the old rivalry between John and Björn Borg as the example and the possible corollary between the standard issue of Modern Tennis and possible alternatives. Borg was dominating the tennis scene at the time with his heavy topspin and his one and half handed backhand...in the waning days of classic tennis and along came McEnroe to challenge him...and his approach to tennis. He was very successful with it. Not that he altogether dispensed with the Borgian play...but it certainly proved that there was room for more than one interpretation. I wonder if the same might be true of today. Perhaps there should be an "American School of Thought" where more of an attacking style of play is incorporated into the game as well. Not that all American players would play in this style...just those that find it suitable given their physical, mental and emotional makeups. Perhaps there should even be some allowance for this in the composition of our tennis courts...make them less abrasive.
Thanks for all of your videos, drills and information that have been accessible to us in the general public via the internet. Thanks for sharing. Your contributions to the game of tennis are rather admirable...to say the least. Ever since the days of Bill Tilden and his masterpiece..."Match Play and Spin of the Ball", spin on the ball has been the game.
Below are the original comments that I wrote to RickMacci in response to his comments to my comments to his video of Development of the ATP Forehand. I pared them down because...get this...I didn't want to appear to be argumentative. For me it is never a case of being right and being wrong. My only reason for ever writing anything is to state my case of how I feel...in my own style and in my own words. I know my tone...I have to live with it.
But at any rate...here are my original thoughts. I am not rebuking RickMacci and the ATP Forehand but I am suggesting that there is a whole other realm of tennis that is being ignored with the conventional wisdom that passes for tennis development these days.
Why am I sharing this with you now? It started with the traditional game of tennis. Scott's articles about the Kirsten Popp classical game and that morphed with a comment by stroke which further provoked me. Then Stotty and 10splayer said something and then it was off to the races...who cares if he flips or not? tennis_chiro had/has his doubts. It has something to do with the comments made about Tommy Haas at the Sony Open and it has something to do with the comment that gordonp has made about John McEnroe. It has a lot to do with the year of 1984 in tennis and that dubious Wimbledon final...and it has a lot to do with George Orwell and his vision. I am thinking critically about the USPTA and all the authorities in our lives that have led us astray. It may have had something to do with klacr's comments about modesty...probably not. I don't entertain thoughts like those. I only try to connect the dots...the three little dots. Just like dear old Ferdinand Celine...in his "Journey to The End of the Night".
I ran my thoughts by bottle...aka John Escher (multiple author of published books and our resident literary expert and former Ivy League English professor) and he agreed (I hate that word) with me that it was good form to abbreviate my remarks in the ATP thread and to not appear to challenge RickMacci. But in the end (and this is the end my friends) we are stuck with who we are. An old leopard cannot change his spots...although I maintain that he can change the grip on his tennis racquet. I swear...I will never be put in a box of somebody else's making. I get tired of tippy toeing around everyone's issues...except for my own. Of which I never tire...of course. You are there and I am here.
My original and traditional thoughts to RickMacci's response regarding the continental grip. Read 'em and weep...I say. With all due respect.
Thanks Rick...I enjoyed your comments.
Originally posted by RickMacci
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Originally posted by don_budge
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Even the announcers for this particular match were speculating about the court surface and how it would effect the fate of the match. Their rationale was that the surface was slower so that it should favor Wilander in that regard. But as it was the slower surface seemed to favor McEnroe ironically enough. It gave him a bit more time to maneuver Wilander around the court. In the end...Wilander was so thoroughly trounced that he ended up attempting to serve and volley. He said himself of McEnroe..."he has a way of making you feel terrible on the tennis court".
For the past several months I have been experimenting with the continental based ground stroke game, with the accompanying approach and volley game whenever possible, and I have had some very interesting results playing against much younger opponents using the current ATP style of play. Granted my experiment has been of a qualitative nature and not one supported by quantitative analysis but the results have been personally compelling. My conclusion is...I am not entirely convinced that the ATP Forehand is the only way to go here in the Modern Game of Tennis. Although you cannot argue with its' popularity.
I might add that I am a big admirer of the Federer technique as applied to the Modern Game of tennis and prior to my experiment with the continental grip I was pursuing my own play along those lines. I find the information that you are bringing forth on the ATP forehand to be very helpful and informative. It has only been recently that I rethought, retaught, relearned and retooled my game into its present continental gripped state.
The results that I speak of are of course personal in nature but I did try to document much of my experience in the two threads that I referenced. Due to their lengthy nature it is understandable if you didn't get a chance to peruse them. Your ATP Forehand video and the accompanying 3D Revolution thread provoked some rather curious thought within me. Albeit...my thoughts do not go lock step with the conventional wisdom that is taken for the basis of the technical philosophy for the Modern Game of Tennis as it stands today.
I understand everything that you have put forth so far and I have read Brian Gordon's articles about the same. Although Brian's stuff is far more technical and more difficult to interpret when discussing from a teaching point of view tennis technique...it is no less compelling. Brian even mentioned in a post that an explanation that I offered for the behavior of the biomechanics of the stroke were pretty good...even though they were so simple. Which is ok, I think...very technical material can be summed up quite simply sometimes thereby decreasing the risk of losing the students interest that are not so technically inclined.
So I have an idea for you and Brian to collaborate on in your spare time. Which I am certain is scarce...but what I propose is this. Measure quantifiably through the use of your electrodes and probes and computers the behavior of the wrist when it pertains to the differences in grip...western, eastern and the bane of modern coaches...the continental. Measure John McEnroe himself if that would be any help in furthering such a project or motivating one. He might be curious himself if this were to be proposed to him. Brian may find that this would be one of the most compelling studies ever done in tennis research. The Behavior of the Wrist and the Force that it Applies to the Ball as it Pertains to Different Grips on the Tennis Racquet. Do me a favor if you would...forward these thoughts to Brian. I wonder what his reaction would be. Would he altogether be dismissive or might he say to himself...Hmmm.
I cite the old rivalry between John and Björn Borg as the example and the possible corollary between the standard issue of Modern Tennis and possible alternatives. Borg was dominating the tennis scene at the time with his heavy topspin and his one and half handed backhand...in the waning days of classic tennis and along came McEnroe to challenge him...and his approach to tennis. He was very successful with it. Not that he altogether dispensed with the Borgian play...but it certainly proved that there was room for more than one interpretation. I wonder if the same might be true of today. Perhaps there should be an "American School of Thought" where more of an attacking style of play is incorporated into the game as well. Not that all American players would play in this style...just those that find it suitable given their physical, mental and emotional makeups. Perhaps there should even be some allowance for this in the composition of our tennis courts...make them less abrasive.
Thanks for all of your videos, drills and information that have been accessible to us in the general public via the internet. Thanks for sharing. Your contributions to the game of tennis are rather admirable...to say the least. Ever since the days of Bill Tilden and his masterpiece..."Match Play and Spin of the Ball", spin on the ball has been the game.
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