Copoly

[jctennis]

This article on how the polyester strings work explains a lot. Because they sure always felt slick to me. I have a question of what is in the strings--like the chemicals other than polyester? Also why wouldn't players just lubricate their strings or even poly(??) Would that be better or worse? Would it be legal at all? Wonder if it would get stuff on the ball like a spitball pitcher?

Sorry to ramble on but the article got my mind racing.

[stumphges]

Hi jctennis,

I'm the author of the article (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/..._do_they_work/), but I try and keep my internet footprint very small so I'm going to continue using my TP handle - stumphges - on this forum.

Manufacturers have been putting slippery ingredients into their copoly strings for some time, although it's difficult to figure out exactly what because their recipes are proprietary. Various manufacturers, including Luxilon, have been open about including fluorocarbons in their copoly strings and you can find them in their patents. The fluorocarbon family (which includes PTFE, aka Teflon) are pretty slippery as a group.

Only recently, companies like Babolat and Weisscannon have been openly touting the extra-slick coatings they've been adding.

Your question about lubrication is excellent. Yes, lubricating strings is currently legal and the forthcoming articles in this series will address this. Crawford Lindsey's most recent laboratory study (there is a link to this study in the "further reading" section at the end of the article) showed that lubricating strings allows them to generate significantly more spin, across the board of materials, in the string patterns we use (16x19/18, 18x20). That scientific paper and the one previous to it on the list - "Spin and String Stiffness" - combine to very nearly complete the "slippery string theory".

I think we'll be getting to all the questions your mind is racing too in the next articles in the series, so I don't want to say too much at this point. We're also considering a practical article to finish the series which will apply all the science, as well as the recommendations of experts like Nate Ferguson, to string selection and even care and maintenance, as they relate to spin generation.

[jctennis]

thank you! and I'll look forward to the other articles you write.

[GeoffWilliams]

I used a silicone spray on a gut/lux hybrid. The first set, without spray, I won 6-4. With spray, I had no control and lost at 0. I will never do that again, and it ruined that string job. Today, I put candle wax to lube a couple of string jobs,and they did not feel good at all.

[stumphges]

I used a silicone spray on a gut/lux hybrid. The first set, without spray, I won 6-4. With spray, I had no control and lost at 0. I will never do that again, and it ruined that string job. Today, I put candle wax to lube a couple of string jobs,and they did not feel good at all.

Hi Geoff,

Interesting to read about your experiences.

It sounds like you started playing with the lubed strings without any practice or adjustment time, is that correct?

When you say you lost all control with the lube applied, what do you mean exactly?

Is candle wax slippery?

Have you read this paper?: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...pinandlube.php

[tennis_chiro]

Tough to read

Hi Geoff,

Interesting to read about your experiences.

It sounds like you started playing with the lubed strings without any practice or adjustment time, is that correct?

When you say you lost all control with the lube applied, what do you mean exactly?

Is candle wax slippery?

Have you read this paper?: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...pinandlube.php

This stuff is tough to read. I feel like I need to go on a retreat to set aside some time to try to parse the differences. And with an engineering degree from Mudd and a D.C., I consider myself pretty good on technical reading. And I'm very interested. This has to be impossible for the regular recreational tennis player to digest; and maybe even worse for the high school educated tennis pro.

But the information should be better distilled to present useable information for regular and pro players as well as decision makers in the sport. I don't think that has been done as yet. I'm looking forward to the additional articles in your series.

But we will continue to discuss this here combining our "old school" prejudices with current experiences like those of Geoff and Sean.

don

[stumphges]

This stuff is tough to read. I feel like I need to go on a retreat to set aside some time to try to parse the differences. And with an engineering degree from Mudd and a D.C., I consider myself pretty good on technical reading. And I'm very interested. This has to be impossible for the regular recreational tennis player to digest; and maybe even worse for the high school educated tennis pro.

Hi Don,

I assume you're talking about the Crawford Lindsey paper I linked to.

Crawford is doing the heavy lifting on this topic and his output, because of the complexity of the subject, will never be as user-friendly as we would like. Which is exactly why this Tennisplayer series came into existence.

But the information should be better distilled to present useable information for regular and pro players as well as decision makers in the sport. I don't think that has been done as yet. I'm looking forward to the additional articles in your series.

don

Thanks. As I wrote above, the final article in the series will probably be a "practical applications" article where all the science, and the wisdom of the pro stringers and technicians, is distilled and presented in a user-friendly way for Tennisplayer readers. But we need to get through the technical stuff first.

But we will continue to discuss this here combining our "old school" prejudices with current experiences like those of Geoff and Sean.

I'll be paying attention and noting those questions that should be addressed in that practical applications article.

I think Geoff's insights are particularly interesting, personally. He's obviously been paying close attention to this topic and is experimenting in a way that most professional stringers and technicians do not. Pro players are generally too risk-averse to try out all the strings and combinations that Geoff has. When they find something they like they generally stick to it. Consequently, players who have the time and inclination to experiment with gusto, like Geoff, may be noticing things that the pros and their technicians are not.

[GeoffWilliams]

You are right about not practicing with it. The silicone spray I used is the type used on electrcial connections, to prevent oxydation on the contacts, and I wiped some of it off, but the entire bed was lubed. The candle wax exploded off the bed on the first few hits, but it left the bed somewhat slippery, just not as much as the spray did. It caused the ball to feel very disconnected from my feel and touch. The ball felt as if it was slipping, not grabbing.... I lost depth control as well. .. I could not make first serves or returns. Although the player against me was very seasoned, somewhat of a hacker, his shots were not powerful, just well placed. I would have won the second set without the spray, though.

It also is true that most pros stick with a set up they like, to get confident with it. Nadal won't change due to joker's dominance of him, just like he stuck with duralast until he switched to rpm. He never used pht, although they gave him string that was imprinted with pht, it was still duralast. A string paint job, and that was a first!

Another experiment I tried out this last week: a orig. apd, the stick Nadal uses, with only ten crosses, strung at 75/85, redcode 1.10mm/nrg2. Lead placed at 12 oclock, 1/2" x 5" long 2 pieces, and no silicone in handle. The multi immed. began to fray, within minutes of hard hitting, with an open player. The kick was good, but not as much as some other things I've done.. That spin created so much kick that it was over their racquets reach. They were smiling. The spray made the ball slip off, without grabbing at all. Wax was better, but wore off, and added nothing to spin or feel, just made the ball feel disconnected somewhat. I did not play sets with wax in comparison.

Today it was a restring of the apd orig. BBO, rough, at 75/90lbs.