Djokovics equipment.

[sfrazeur]

Not as fast if you restring the crosses often. They don't have time to notch and saw as much.

This doesn't make sense to me. Are you advising stringing gut in the mains with poly in the crosses and regularly restringing the crosses?

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

I do it all the time as described in my earlier post.

[sfrazeur]

I do it all the time as described in my earlier post.

I do not fully know what actual damages can occur to the racquet when restringing crosses while keeping the mains. Even when locking the frame down prior to cutting out the crosses. However, I would not do it to my frames. Nor would I it for a stringing customer's racquet.

Not as fast if you restring the crosses often. They don't have time to notch and saw as much.

Moreover, it doesn't make sense that restringing the crosses often will reduce wear on the mains from the crosses.

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

No harm at all if you know what you are doing. The deeper the notch, the looser the tensioning cross, the more snap back sawing occurs. The crosses are the tensioners, but this cannot be done with mains that don't hold tension well, unless you string the crosses correspondingly loose. Most non gut string goes too loose very fast with hard hitters, who don't know the technique I am describing. Nor do most stringers, even. Like I said, no harm to the frame at all if done right. I also prestretch the frame before locking down. It's surprising how many stringers are not familiar with this. They just vomit others opinions, without ever having tried nor perfected it themselves, which I don't know if you have done so as well, but it sounds like it. It is truly astonishing, how little tension (this can be proved by taking a sonic recording) is lost with vs gut done in the right manner. Almost no tension is lost at all, I'd say, about 8-10%

[tennis_chiro]

Interesting stuff

No harm at all if you know what you are doing. The deeper the notch, the looser the tensioning cross, the more snap back sawing occurs. The crosses are the tensioners, but this cannot be done with mains that don't hold tension well, unless you string the crosses correspondingly loose. Most non gut string goes too loose very fast with hard hitters, who don't know the technique I am describing. Nor do most stringers, even. Like I said, no harm to the frame at all if done right. I also prestretch the frame before locking down. It's surprising how many stringers are not familiar with this. They just vomit others opinions, without ever having tried nor perfected it themselves, which I don't know if you have done so as well, but it sounds like it. It is truly astonishing, how little tension (this can be proved by taking a sonic recording) is lost with vs gut done in the right manner. Almost no tension is lost at all, I'd say, about 8-10%

I'm relatively in the dark, but I find this really interesting. Seems to make some sense too. But I don't buy the part about "almost no tension is lost at all". If you lose just 8% on a 58 lb string job you are doing a string job with the mains at a little over 53 lbs. Do you pull the crosses a little tighter to make up for the loss? But then you would have reversed the usual lower tension on the crosses relationship. Or do I have that wrong too?

don

[sfrazeur]

"Vomit?" Harsh word choice.

Most big hitters, high level players and juniors are going to find this process pointless. They will break through the gut too quickly either way and would use poly in the mains for superior spin potential. Only a minority string gut mains, poly crosses. In fact, assuming for a moment that you are correct, most players in general would not see the monetary value in the process as they would be paying someone to restring half their racquet. In which they would be charged for full labor as well. This process would only be applicable to a small niche set of Tennis players who string with gut mains, have their own stringer and the time or inclination or funds to do it. If they did have the funds they would not care about regularly restringing the crosses to save on the supposed wear on the mains.

As well, you can put undue stress on the frame without breaking it. So it is not possible to say with complete certainty that no harm is done at all.

Additionally, poly strings when fresh snap back more so than older ones. The only thing I can see where older poly crosses would cause more damage is from the more advanced notching. But then again, niche process.

-Shaun

[don_budge]

It's only words...and words are all I know.

"Vomit?" Harsh word choice.

He's only turning a phrase. In his own words...

"My comments are intended to entertain, add some flair, flow into a line of reasoning."

I suspect when he makes a comment like, "They just vomit others opinions" he is using an intricate, finely balanced combination of his intentions to illustrate a point...with more of an emphasis on "flow" in this particular choice of a word.

[sfrazeur]

Chunky Style

He's only turning a phrase. In his own words...

"My comments are intended to entertain, add some flair, flow into a line of reasoning."

I suspect when he makes a comment like, "They just vomit others opinions" he is using an intricate, finely balanced combination of his intentions to illustrate a point...with more of an emphasis on "flow" in this particular choice of a word.

Wiki provides more of the connotation that comes to my mind: ". . .Forceful expulsion of the contents of one's stomach through the mouth and sometimes the nose." That's some chunky flow. . .

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

Some stress is put on the frame every time you string, but, with new mains it's worse, due to the stress being applied unequally on each side, not equally, as it already is applied when crosses are cut. I've even seen some stringers string the mains all on one side first, a sure recipe for cracking! This is more for those who string themselves. I see you did not deny never having done it yourself. It's just common sense, that the string as main which holds its tension (vs team) would have no ill effects. None of my frames are cracked from doing it. Federer uses the gut as main, as does Joker. Murray (alu power) and Roddick (pht) use it as cross. Do you know why these top pros use the vs team gut? Controlled power.

[sfrazeur]

Some stress is put on the frame every time you string, but, with new mains it's worse, due to the stress being applied unequally on each side, not equally, as it already is applied when crosses are cut. I've even seen some stringers string the mains all on one side first, a sure recipe for cracking! This is more for those who string themselves. I see you did not deny never having done it yourself. It's just common sense, that the string as main which holds its tension (vs team) would have no ill effects. None of my frames are cracked from doing it. Federer uses the gut as main, as does Joker. Murray (alu power) and Roddick (pht) use it as cross. Do you know why these top pros use the vs team gut? Controlled power.

I am not arguing against nor questioning the qualities of gut. So that is irrelevant. No. I have not done it myself. I use copoly strings in a Pure Drive Roddick GT. As before, this is a process for a very small, niche group. Regardless of everything else, you still have not posted a compelling case that regularly restringing the crosses will lessen wear on gut mains.

-Shaun

[tennis_chiro]

Just a minute

Hey guys,
this is a great discussion and I am really learning a lot. But when I asked the question of Geoff a little after the beginning of this thread, I didn't know there was going to be an article in this month's issue specifically on copoly strings.

If you haven't read it, you must. But once you have, it may ...or may not, bring more credibility to the argument Geoff is making for restringing the crosses, because (and I'm not at all sure I am reading the article correctly) the tension of the crosses form the "rails" for the mains to slide on when they are springing back and imparting that increased spin. But then, it also argues for the fact that you may be better off (for spin) with the Luxillon than you are with VS in the mains as the increased lubrication allows them to slide back more quickly and completely in the critical 2 milliseconds when that takes place.

I'm going to try to get the author of the article to weigh in here.

Another question I have is this is all about groundstrokes because in groundstrokes you don't have so much sidespin, but in serves there is significant sideways movement of the face on the ball at contact and this difference in the bounce back of the crosses (for sidespin) could have a significant effect on the amount of spin and therefore kick you can get sideways on your serve!

BTW The links at the end of the article to Cross and Lindsey articles are very informative as well.
don

[sfrazeur]

I have read it and I think I've read it somewhere else before.

It's funny how research is finding the slickness or glide effect of poly/co-poly strings to aid so much in spin production while more and more manufacturers are bringing out rough, textured strings. At the same time however, a larger number of pros and high level players use a full string bed of poly. Some even use the rough textured versions of strings.

In all it's an interesting combination of strings to get the maximum possible spin potential. You want to mains the have that "grabiness" but a cross string that offers a slick enough surface for the mains to glide on.

I think it comes down to the player finding the right combination of racquet and strings that together have the desired feel, control, spin and power.

Myself, I could probably get more spin if I strung the crosses with a string that provides better glide for the mains. But, with a Pure Drive Roddick GT strung with Solinco Tour 17, do I need or want more spin? When the string are fresh enough, say less than 4 hours play, I have enough spin to control the power of the racquet and my strokes. More use than that and I feel I don't get enough spin and the ball starts sailing a few inches past the baseline.

I've tried softer gut like strings in the crosses and I do not care for the feel of the string bed. It feels too lose, not the strings, but the string bed as a whole.
It doesn't feel as solid as the full poly string bed. Now, if I was still using low powered, midsize racquets then that preference would most likely be dramatically different.

-Shaun

[GeoffWilliams]

The slickness provided for in the copoly strings, increases very quickly with hard hitters. As the string becomes way looser, the snap back increases, and the mains glide too far, and the ball is gone before the mains can "grab" and cut into the ball. Some strings also have outer coatings that wear off too quickly, and the friction increases, and the snap back occurs too fast. This can happen in as little time as 1/2hr, which is how long the big shot pros like Nadal use the string, for 8 games. Any big hitter will moan to you about how short their strings last. This is for self stringers, who want to master their own fates, and not leave it to the trampoline effect. Why do you think so many top pros use vs team/poly hybrids? It is the best controlled power they can come up with.

Many spin strings also have nubs and edges that wear off in 1/2 hr, and become normal round strings very fast.

It is a very fine balancing act, to find the amount of time your hybrid takes to degrade. So while vs team mains and nrg2 crosses may feel perfect, it only lasts as long as: how hard you hit, with how stiff a frame, on what type of surface, in how much humidity, and heat, at what altitude. Any top pro will tell you that's why they change their strings to match the conditions they are playing with. The truth is, they not only change the strings, but the sw, the balance points, and total mass as well, to match conditions. So the perfect string job, only stays perfect, according to those parameters. So doean't it make sense to restring the glide strings when they go off a little? That's just common sense.

[sfrazeur]

Again, I am not questioning the qualities of gut.

-Shaun

[sfrazeur]

T

[. . .]

So the perfect string job, only stays perfect, according to those parameters. So doean't it make sense to restring the glide strings when they go off a little? That's just common sense.

Sensical? To you. Common to restring the crosses while leaving the mains? Hardly. Your time and your money. I'm not telling you, you're wrong. I do question the structure stress this can easy place on the racquet. I do not have the answer. So for me it is off the table. I'm not going to potentially harm some else's frame. You're a Tennisplayer.net junkie like myself, so you would understand that I require proof other than someone's word who is an enthusiast and not an recognized expert.

I do find it questionable that this was your prime advice for a male junior playing 18s.

-Shaun