Interactive Forum May 2011: Milos Raonic: Serve

[johnyandell]

You asked for it and here is the 140mph first serve of Milos Raonic in high speed at 120 frames per second! Only on Tennisplayer.

There is a lot to look at and to ponder. The racket face and body position at the start of the motion. The spread trigger finger, the platform stance, the long sweeping followthroughs across the body, to name only a few. But what is fundamental and what is idiosyncratic? Let's hear what you think!

Milos Raonic: Serve

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

Milos Raonic: Serve

[stotty]

His racket face laying open for so long in the early part of the swing is unusual...similar to Edberg. Many coaches try to stop that kind of trait where I live (in the UK).

[don_budge]

Just one question...

Besides all of the questions about the idiosyncratic nature of his service motion, I have just one more question...is the motion conducive to him following it into the net? As it looks now the answer to that question is...no. I suggest sending him to the Stan Smith school of serving for some seasoning.

140 mph is impressive...but spin, placement and tactics are equally important elements of the service game. His motion may not be appropriate for those more subtler elements of service technique and tactics. That little idiosyncratic move that he makes at the top of his backswing to compensate for the rather unorthodox starting position of his racquet head and wrist is worrisome to me. Those little moves and compensations in a players swing sometimes are the reason things tend to break down under pressure...when things get a little dicey. It also looks like he tosses the ball very high which can be problematic in the wind.

It would be a shame to waste this young man's obvious strength and not develop the rest of his game around it, while at the same time continuing to develop the serve. If I were his coach I would not be satisfied with this as the final product. Hopefully he has a thoughtful coach, that is mindful of the potential this young man has, that will point him in the right direction.

This player should be developed to serve and volley, to attack the net and to play all court tennis...he is a perfect candidate, designed to offset the advantages of the prototypical modern backcourt player of today.

As it stands now, though, this is the perfect modern day serve. Generally the philosophy is...you cannot argue with velocity. Hit as hard as possible with minimal thought devoted to tactics...then retreat behind the baseline.

[jimlosaltos]

Great variety.

Commenters don't seem to fully appreciate Raonic's serve.

Tremendous variety. Best, most severe twist I've ever seen. Watched Raonic ace Verdasco in San Jose, hitting the serve into the seats -- the sideline seats. But he moves it all around, and varies spin. Raonic's velocity is secondary to his spin.

Motion is quite similar to Sampras', adjusting for the difference in height.

Tremendous racquet-head velocity going over-and-out on the kick/twist.

Weaknesses seem to be return of serve and recovery on backhand side, in this amateur's opinion.

[richberman]

Raonic's Serve

John,
Fantastic work - thank you!
Raonic's serve, other than his funky take away his serve is perfect. Wait initially on the back foot, closed face racquet (finally) on the take away, a delayed right side, long arc to and through the hitting zone, and a nice kick back. What is there not to like? Wish I could do it.
Rich Berman

[GeoffWilliams]

You asked for it and here is the 140mph first serve of Milos Raonic in high speed at 120 frames per second! Only on Tennisplayer.

There is a lot to look at and to ponder. The racket face and body position at the start of the motion. The spread trigger finger, the platform stance, the long sweeping followthroughs across the body, to name only a few. But what is fundamental and what is idiosyncratic? Let's hear what you think!

Milos Raonic: Serve

His head goes through more movement than any other pro, 4' back and 6' forward. It's very dynamic. His weight goes all the way back, like Sampras, and his elbow is extremely high, leading to a very fast pronation of his forearm. Very high kick back, like Federer, but not as high as Roddick. Trigger finger always drops down. Always, almost, bounces the ball 8 x before serving. His grip is eastern bh. Take it forward with a stiff arm like Becker used to. How does he get such huge spin/pace, with so little shoulder tilt? It's the snap off and long limbs. He was using the blx blade 98 for awile at Iw, then went back to the k blade. He was stringing at 42/44 lux m2pro, then went up to 45/47 at iw, then back down to 40/42 at Monte carlo. He gets up quite high off the ground for such little knee bend. There is more kinetic voltage built up with his shot than most. That's too loose a tension for consistent groundies, even with the higher crosses. Left hip is higher than right at full coil, like Sampras.

[Smokey]

Compare Raonic to Kerry Miller in same issue

I'd love to hear from others on one big issue I hear little about, that by the way Raonic has dialed. After loading both legs, the weight transfer from back leg bias shifting to front leg bias as he continues to explode upward and forward - very subtle, very critical - is excellent, just like Sampras and Federer. Another way to say it is after loading, you initiate more with your back leg and finish more with your front leg. That's one reason the right hip is initially lower.
I think everybody just assumes you explode with both legs at once, equally. I disagree and I think it's an important distinction. Look at Kerry Miller in the same issue of the newsletter for a bad example. He gets onto his front leg way too soon, and see how poor his explosion is. Overall elements otherwise might be excellent. But look how much higher off the ground Raonic gets than Miller. And not becuase Miller is older, either. I'll bet Miller looked the same as he does now in his prime youth. It's just his sub-optimal technique. Agree? Disagree? Any pro you know of who has an overall front leg bias who also has a great serve?

[Smokey]

Miller otherwise sound

I want to add that Kerry Miller's adjacent article is otherwise very sound with excellent advice that I agree with. But I think with all the great elements he points out, he's missed a critical subtlety of leg loading and release action in his own serve. The kick on the finish is rather irrelevant, as you should not have to think about it if you are loading and releasing efficiently, it will happen naturally. If you're not doing it, you have much bigger problems, usually a major lack of leg load or timing.
Roddick is one notable potential exception to back-leg initiation in that his feet are so close together from the start, and another example is Monfils, that my point relates mostly to a true platform, feet-apart serve, not a feet together or step-forward serve as much. Those serves seem to bias the front leg with an assist from the back. But Miller's true platform serve has almost no back leg and it shows.

[johnyandell]

Know you mean Kerry Mitchell... But I'll ask him to respond.

[gzhpcu]

OK... we are in 2011, and tennis has changed, but, for me, I'll take the Gonzales serve: lazy windup, elegant, poised, no excessive body movement...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhFo3hvGPI

The Roddicks, Raonics, Karlovics just don't do it for me. Fast? Yes. Elegant? No.

[johnyandell]

Be amazing to see Richard serve under the new rule with the new rackets. But yeah something about watching him is very pleasing.

[Smokey]

Yes, Kerry Mitchell

Know you mean Kerry Mitchell... But I'll ask him to respond.

I did mean Mitchell, sorry Kerry, and I'd like to hear what he has to say. Thanks John.

[johnyandell]

Check out his response below!

[cayagua]

Racket Face Open Beginning Of Serve

The racket face parallel to the ground is taught by many south american coaches. They use the expression of feeling the racket as you are holding a frying pan by the handle. Try it and you will experience that having the racket face open at the beginning of the serve gives you that feeling of holding a frying pan by the handle.

The idea behind it is to help students having problems with pronation. Having the racket with an open face at the beginning of the serve effectively suppinates the arm and wrist allowing for greater pronation at the time you strike the ball.

It is the same principle mentioned in one of the articles here in tennisplayer about the Roddick serve. In that article I believe a college coach mentions that he discovered a hidden jewel in the Roddick serve because Roddick suppinates his arm when he reaches the pro drop.

The open racket face of the Raonic serve is the same principle but instead of suppinating at the pro drop, you suppinate at the beginning of the serve.

Ernest Gulbis also begins his serve with an open racket face.

The long follow thru, in my opinion, is just a consequence that Raonic has extremelly long arms.