Questions for Kerry Mitchell - The Serve part 1

[nabrug]

Ivanovic

http://www.onlinetennisinstruction.com/anaivanovic.html

"Serve

Now Ana Ivanovic’s serve has been the topic of a lot of discussions. She has had a lot of ups and downs with her serve and there were periods when the serve was a big liability in her game! Looking at some older highlights of her playing in 2006, it seems like she had an ok serve with a fluid motion and a good toss just above her head and into the court.

In recent years she has had some major issues with her serve though. The biggest issue is the inconsistency with her toss. Sometimes her toss is way off to the right!

Ivanovic Serve Slow Motion
The toss is too far to the right of her body!



This toss that is too far off to the right has been a problem with her serve for a while now. It causes her to open up her body way too early and she loses control over the serve. In 2009 I believe she also tried an abbreviated service motion with a shorter swing. That didn’t work out well at all and was probably the low point in her serving career.

Looking at some recent video in 2011, it seems like the toss is a little more over her head again and a little more consistent in general. She still opens up too early though and her serve could be improved a whole in many aspects!


Coaching Recommendation

The main thing for Ana Ivanovic to work on is of course her serve. She needs to get a coach that really understands serve mechanics and can help her develop a solid serve. The first thing to be addressed is her toss. It should be more over her head and not as far to the right.

She could also benefit from working on the fluidity of her motion and not opening up too early with the upper body! Once the serve becomes better, her confidence will skyrocket in my opinion."

[tennis_chiro]

Nabrug's point about the followthrough

I think Nabrug is onto something important here. If you are really hitting up and getting maximum tangential force at the end of your reach, something has to give and it looks like it is the extreme downward break at the elbow. Another great current serve to look at is Raonic.

Jim Fawcette put up some great high speed video in an earlier thread that he got at San Jose this year.

http://www.fawcette.net/2011/02/milos-raonics-serve-close-up-in-video.html

He also has a great example of the difference in the followthrough for a flat vs a kick serve in that clip.

I would point out that Andy's followthrough may not be just a diffusion of the energy from his swing, but also an effort to regain his balance without going forward (like Pete).

I also teach a motion very close to what Kerry is advocating here. (By the way, Kerry, if you check your more recent motion against your demonstration, you'll see that you are moving in the direction of a slightly staggered rhythm because the downward motion of your toss hand and arm has been abbreviated and your left hand is going up before your right; could have some interesting implications for the rhythm of your serve). And I certainly try to get everyone to followthrough to the opposite side. Now I'm not so sure of the importance of that for more advanced students. However, even for the pro servers, it is important to release the arm and have some kind of a continuation of the motion. For some the extreme internal rotation, especially on the kick serve, leads to the followthrough on the same side of the body. (This is the same kind of problem experienced by people throwing a screwball; that has long been discouraged because of the damage it does to the elbow joint.) The problem with this is that the muscles of the forearm do not relax like they do when the arm bends and goes to the opposite side. And that will almost definitely lead to development of tendinitis at the elbow, usually lateral epicondylitis, but also possibly medial. So even if you have students finishing out in front of their bodies, instead of following through to the opposite side, you want to be sure they release the tension in the arm and particularly in the forearm, by letting the arm bend and move a little to the opposite side of the midline of the body, or at least to the opposite side relative to the position of the elbow joint at that moment. Otherwise, you will have to send them to someone like me who knows Graston Technique to get the scar tissue in the muscles of the forearm broken down once they finally realize they have a problem!

don

[gzhpcu]

Don,
I had discussed this a long time ago and Brian Gordon answered as follows:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...read.php?t=669

[tennis_chiro]

all over it

Don,
I had discussed this a long time ago and Brian Gordon answered as follows:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...read.php?t=669

As usual, Phil, you are way ahead of us and all over it. I just wanted to emphasize that this release is necessary to protect the elbow. Brian's fractured olecranon (ouch) is an extreme case, but a lot of players end up with a sore arm from not releasing properly.

Perhaps that also explains how Sampras with such an extreme position was actually protecting his arm and never had any real elbow problems (that I am aware of) despite the ferocity of his delivery.

don

[nabrug]

I think Nabrug is onto something important here. If you are really hitting up and getting maximum tangential force at
..........................................
like me who knows Graston Technique to get the scar tissue in the muscles of the forearm broken down once they finally realize they have a problem!

don

A few remarks.

1. It is nice to see that Don tries to teach through the caracteristics of a stroke. I have not seen a teacher do it differently. I teach students the inner system. The caracteristics are only there for me to check if everything went well.
2. The model of the arm and racket action (the technique) of the pro serve is the same in every serve stroke (spin, flat, slice). Again there will be different caracteristics but the underlying technique is the same.
3. This is not a thoroughly researched remark. But all the pro’s mentioned with the “lesser” technique show problems in their careers with the service. Like Don said I myself experienced a lot of tendinitis at the elbow in my old serve motion. I predict, because of the more active trunk rotation, that servers with my old serve action also experience more (lower) back problems. But again this needs a thorough research.
4. And for Don. I am not on to something. Once you know the model of the inner system you know that this is it.

[gzhpcu]

I saw a tennisone instruction video where it says that if you are tossing forward, your arm extends forward and has a long follow through. If you are tossing upwards (which you should serving) the arm begins to stop after impact, leading to the high elbow (a break in the arm) and the racket pointing downward. This makes sense to me...

[nabrug]

I saw a tennisone instruction video where it says that if you are tossing forward, your arm extends forward and has a long follow through. If you are tossing upwards (which you should serving) the arm begins to stop after impact, leading to the high elbow (a break in the arm) and the racket pointing downward. This makes sense to me...

I don't think there is a relation. Look at Richard Krajiceks serve.

Ofcourse it is true what they say in general. But Krajicek has the same arm and racket action as Sampras. In other words people with the arm and racket action of Kerry Mitchell will not get the pro serve just by adjusting their toss.

[gzhpcu]

narburg, sorry I mistyped. What I meant was not "tossing" but rather "hitting" (throwing) up...... you are right, the position of the toss is not relevant...