Bent On Kicker?

[jimlosaltos]

John,

This is a follow up to our discussion many weeks ago, now that I have more examples. My question, which fascinates/ perplexes me is: Why do pro's often bend at the waist, and possibly have their wrist laid back/cocked more, when hitting a kick serve?

I attached a few pics to show what I mean. Only tiny images work as attachments, so hope they're viewable.

1) DelPotro hits massive kick. Well bent over at impact.
2) Raonic, appears to be bent at the waist on this kicker (Poor quality, extracted from slomo vid I took).
3) Fed, bent over and wrist back on his second-serve kick to ad court. This is the one we discussed briefly before, and is a vidcap from your own slowmo.
4) Raonic, straight at impact on a flat-ish first serve.

Any ideas or insights?

Here's my photo of Delpo bent in better rez:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfawcette/5446076006/in/set-72157625924560361/

Here's my pic of Raonic extended in better rez:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jfawcette/5445407361/in/set-72157626049725216/

Thanks in advance. best // jim

[johnyandell]

Jim for starters repost this in my section please. I won't have time to look at any of this though probably til after the March issue and after Indian Wells. You can post the links to the videos as well. there is a way to embed video. I'll have Jeff Counts post something about that.

[gzhpcu]

Isn't the bending at the waist, what is called "body snap"? First the hips move forwards ("archer's bow"), then cartwheel and bend forward at the waist. An extra element in the kinetic chain to create power.

Plaegenhoef wrote "This slightly bent body position at impact is characteristic of all good servers. Always look for that jutting buttocks as a key to a well-coordinated body action."

[bottle]

I suspect deleterious effect from all these enhancements to repeating motion by rotorded servers the world over.

A good rotorded server, after all, can easily clear fences on a one-bounce overhead thus demonstrating that he or she possesses sufficient power already.

It is upward spin combined with sufficient power that is the rub for us rotorded servers, namely most servers.

One might have to give up some power elements or at least reduce them to achieve some semblance of the powerful upward spin that everyone lusts after.

That won't stop me from trying for more hip over hip, but won't this possibly raise tip too much before arm lets it go?

When one looks at a Roddick or Raonic, however, one might see examples of arm flying straight in a farther back direction.

The rotorded person tries that, in turn, with diminished success since now he's shortened his runway AT THE OTHER END as well.

Most important is to keep pecking away at this subject in the Zorba-like hope that someone will even more beautifully illuminate the compensations available for rotordedness that we all know do exist.

I am aware that some very good people have recently tried to do this, in these forums.