High Balls: Straight Arm vs Bent/Bent

[tennis_chiro]

I have a question. I'm trying to help a 12 y.o. boy who just started with me and hits a straight arm forehand, but doesn't get inside enough or below the ball enough. I'd really prefer he hit a bent/bent, but who am I to change what he already likes and obviously works pretty well for the two top players in the world. Part of the drill I use to help kids develop their strokes is to hit high balls and to go from high to higher. Well this was a little tough for the young man because he was straining to hit the high ball. I tried to explain to him that he didn't have to get his elbow up to the height of the ball, just the racket head. With a bent/bent structure, you can go from a ball below your knees to a ball above your shoulders with your elbow moving little more than a couple of inches over that entire 5 foot range. Of course, you have to learn how to do that, but eventually it's a lot less stress. As I was trying to teach this to this young man, I realized that with the straight arm hitting structure, he really had to lift his elbow much higher than a bent/bent. And that is a lot more strain for the shoulder.

Am I wrong about this? I haven't seen anything written about this disadvantage with a straight-arm hitting configuration. At least I consider it a disadvantage. And I consider teaching players how to handle high balls with a high to higher swing without straining their arms or lifting their elbows too much a critical skill, especially for younger and smaller players dealing with moonballers.

Please post a response or point me to an answer if you have one.

don

Julian, don't worry, I'll put a post in John's question box!

[julian1]

A classic problem

Don,
you have to make your mind.
Which one is more important:
medical considerations or high performance

[bottle]

I don't see why anybody has to decide. Learn it/teach it all! But I'm fast becoming prejudiced against STATIC double-bend structure, in which after a loop the arm is bent and this bend doesn't change much until after contact.

I've done that a lot and know at least one advantage pointed out by Peter Burwash long ago, that you can then either extend or contract a little more for emergency or last minute adjustment.

I just think that once you start fooling around with Chris Lewit or Oscar Wegner type hinging, you're into a different, more interesting world.

Arm stays straight or it doesn't. It bends during contact or it doesn't. It bends before contact but gently and then elbow flies up. Elbow extends somewhat then re-bends to form a looser, less mechanical loop. I see all kinds of futuristic possibilities in this approach, some subtle, in which, Doug King says, the racket almost "disappears."

I think either a bent or bending arm does make great sense for a high ball, at least for an old person like me, and thank Chiro for that suggestion.

[tennis_chiro]

Why?

Don,
you have to make your mind.
Which one is more important:
medical considerations or high performance

I'm not sure I get the question? There has certainly been a conflict ever since I became a chiropractor. My goal is Human Performance Enhancement: how can I help someone be the best they can be! Chiropractic was just another expansion of the "tool box" I could use to achieve that goal. I don't do "medicine". What I am most qualified at is teaching tennis. The chiropractic skills gives me a different perspective when working with a student. Only occasionally do they come into play, but they are always available. Not only do I encourage my students to take care of their bodies (food, exercise, rest, chiro care, etc.), I also ask them to expand their minds and encourage them to keep playing their instruments (invariably these kids are musicians as well), learn another language (my students usually already have 2). Most of the kids are swamped with the schedule of school work and various activities they are involved in. I try to get them to learn speedreading and to look at Superlearning techniques to lighten their load a little. Every once in a while, someone listens to me.

I can't get excited about my tennis game anymore. My body just won't go. (Boy, do I wish I knew what I know now when my body could run 6 hours a day on the court and play 3 or 4 matches a day!) I still want to break 70 again and maybe shoot my age before this decade is out, but it takes a lot of practice. I get more excited about seeing my students improve and achieve their goals. Don't get me wrong. I try every day to improve as a chiropractor and as a tennis pro. But in either case, it is my patient's/student's progress that gives me satisfaction.

So, health and high performance; they go together!
don

[bottle]

Think I'll try lifting elbow gently up toward the high ball and then hinging, reversing the order of something I now do, just to see what will happen.

[bottle]

# 4 and #5 went up together. The one wasn't an answer to the other.

[tennis_chiro]

The body has to find an easy, effective way

Think I'll try lifting elbow gently up toward the high ball and then hinging, reversing the order of something I now do, just to see what will happen.

It just seems to me the ball doesn't know whether the arm is straight or not; it just knows where the strings meet it and it feels that contact and momentum. Your body had to find an easy, efficient way to produce the shot when the ball is above your shoulder, especially in today's men's game.

I'm having a hard time finding clips that show a ball being hit above the shoulder. So far the best I can do is chest high and most of the clips show the racket shaft parallel to the ground at contact, something that surprised me. I probably need to look at more shots of Roger playing Rafa on a high bouncing surface. I'd love to find some shots of Olivier Rochus on a high bouncing court; or Laver.

don

[stotty]

A clip panits a 1000 words

I've been visiting this forum a lot since joining TP. It's great, you can learn a lot here. But all the words in the world can rarely describe what is taking place in a stroke. The best thing coaches/players can do is upload a clips or a links to Youtube so coaches can then see what is really taking place.

I will be posting "Dog Pat Revisited" shortly so all coaches can see what I have achieved (with the help of others on TP) and what the next move should be.

Post a clip Don...be great to see the shot in the flesh

[bottle]

There's the standard prejudice. Words are just so awful. Guess what, fellas.
Films are awful, too. They lie just as much. You need both, and then good luck, too.

[julian1]

Chris Lewitt is the man to talk about extension,etc,etc

It just seems to me the ball doesn't know whether the arm is straight or not; it just knows where the strings meet it and it feels that contact and momentum. Your body had to find an easy, efficient way to produce the shot when the ball is above your shoulder, especially in today's men's game.

I'm having a hard time finding clips that show a ball being hit above the shoulder. So far the best I can do is chest high and most of the clips show the racket shaft parallel to the ground at contact, something that surprised me. I probably need to look at more shots of Roger playing Rafa on a high bouncing surface. I'd love to find some shots of Olivier Rochus on a high bouncing court; or Laver.

don

Don,
Chris Lewitt is the man to talk about an arm extension/arm being straight,etc,etc

[bottle]

A good idea. And he could talk to other people who have arms, too.