Rather frustrating...

[llll]

On my second serve, seems like it is the shoulder neck area, isn't it?


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yes but thats where the pros make contact on their first serve.
do the drill and get back to us.
don i wish i lived closer to you. you are a great teacher even from miles away

[gzhpcu]

ditto that... ever plan coming on a vacation to Switzerland Don?

[gzhpcu]

To wrap things up for now... a comparison... I see what Don and Larry meant... (keep tossing arm up longer, deeper drop, get drop to move more to the right, toss a bit more to the left...)




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[llll]

don lots of figure 8 training in this video.
not promoting the gadget as you can do as well with a towel or long sock and a feww tennis balls and save yourself $60

http://www.thetotalserve.com/

[10splayer]

To wrap things up for now... a comparison... I see what Don and Larry meant... (keep tossing arm up longer, deeper drop, get drop to move more to the right, toss a bit more to the left...)




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Lots of great advice in this thread, and I sure hope Phil figures it out. Gotta love his perseverance. I still see the leg work, and how it relates to the arm progressions as a major culprit. In the above sequence, Marat is perfectly sequenced. Legs flex as the racquet enters the back, and extends at the lowest part of the swing.(first two captions) Phil is pushing against the ground in at least four of the five snapshots. This is a real problem, IMO.

[tennis_chiro]

Interesting device

don lots of figure 8 training in this video.
not promoting the gadget as you can do as well with a towel or long sock and a feww tennis balls and save yourself $60
http://www.thetotalserve.com/

Lisa Dodson has created a nice little learning device, but I really prefer just putting a 1/2 lb. or 1 lb. weight on an old racket. Or just using a piece of heavy rope that goes for about $.50/foot and you only need about 2.5 feet to tie a couple of knots at the end. (Great for warming up your golf swing!) It's good for getting a basic feel of the continuous swing, but as you can see on the video, it does not address exactly the problem I've been talking about in this thread. You have to have a stiff shaft for the racket head to move over to the right side of the body. Otherwise, with the flexible attachment in The Total Serve, the weighted end just keeps moving in the same plane and it can't get over to the right until actual contact, even when Lisa is swinging the Total Serve. I like the way she sets up people and I think it would definitely be a useful device in the very initial parts of learning the continuous motion. It would certainly make it easier to teach someone my "Figure 8's". But after an initial introduction, I would want the feedback of the racket shaft swinging the head over to the right side.

Sidney Lewellyn, who was the coach of Althea Gibson and even somewhat associated with Arthur Ashe, had a device similar to this that was simply a long sock like device that had a tennis ball in the end to give you the weight. That was over 40 years ago.

Perhaps the simplest way to imitate the action of The Total Serve would be to put a tennis ball in an old thigh-high sock or nylon stocking. Of course, you wouldn't have the handle, but you could cut down an old racket and put the handle in the other end of the sock.

I also have my students serve (only briefly) with a 27", 1-inch diameter stick or pole (I have both wood and aluminum). I should have mentioned that in the discussions about getting the sense of swinging in the plane of the contact point and the target. Of course, you need a third point to define a plane and that would be the point at which the racket really starts to accelerate to the ball (this is approximate, not actual).

But I like The Total Serve. It's just a little too pricey for my purposes. It might make sense for me as a teacher, using it for a few minutes with every student, but not for the students themselves. I would want them to do the "Figure 8's" with something that emphasizes that move to the right, like a real racket!

don

[gzhpcu]

Don,


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Need to get my forearm lower....

Will work on it the next couple of days....

[tennis_chiro]

Getting your forearm lower, Phil

Don,


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Need to get my forearm lower....

Will work on it the next couple of days....

Even if you don't get the forearm lower, if you get the rackethead further to the right, you should notice an appreciable improvement in your serve, both in power and accuracy.

One thing you have to be careful of: it appears in that photo that you are releasing the butt of the racket with your little finger and losing contact with the heel of your hand in an effort to swing the racket around. This essentially means you are serving with your little finger; better to have your little finger keep the butt of the racket snug against the heel of your hand and use your wrist and arm a little more. I sometimes stick a dime under the heel of the student's hand and have them keep it there through the service motion. Don't know the comparable Swiss coin, but I'm sure there is one.

Good luck.
don

[gzhpcu]

Thanks Don....


I looked at one of your videos and you wrote:

Notice how just putting the racket head in the "back scratch position" and turning your shoulders doesn't get the head of the racket around far enough to point the butt of the racket to the ball in the direction it is about to be hit. To do that, you have to turn the hips and shoulders forward just before the racket gets to its lowest point and it will swing a little further out to line up with the ball

Will try rotating my hips forward, while keeping my shoulder still turned back to get it to swing out further to the right... (does this sound similar to hitting the forehand? hips first to whip the arm forward?)

[tennis_chiro]

Hips are key

Thanks Don....


I looked at one of your videos and you wrote:



Will try rotating my hips forward, while keeping my shoulder still turned back to get it to swing out further to the right... (does this sound similar to hitting the forehand? hips first to whip the arm forward?)

The key is to start the hips and the shoulder turn while the racket head is still descending to its lowest point. Then the momentum of the racket head will swing it around to the right. That's what the "feet-together-forward Fig8" drill is all about.

don

[10splayer]

Thanks Don....


I looked at one of your videos and you wrote:



Will try rotating my hips forward, while keeping my shoulder still turned back to get it to swing out further to the right... (does this sound similar to hitting the forehand? hips first to whip the arm forward?)

But leg drive proceeds and empowers hip rotation, right? In the Safin sequence, leg drive is complete/finished by the second photo, and then the hips start there rotation, and progress in each subsequent caption. As a result of this hip rotation, the torso starts to turn into alignment, and aids in the "right" position of the racquet.


From the first to the third snapshot, your hips (and thus your torso/shoulders) are really not progressing at all, because you are still extending the legs.

[gzhpcu]

Hmmm... see what you mean... thanks...

[10splayer]

The prolonged leg extension has always been a huge red flag to me. Not only is it delaying the hip/torso rotation,and messing up the sequencing, but the benefit of using your legs is all but wiped out. I doubt you're creating much ground reaction force when your legs are in the extension phase for that long. Even for something as simple as jumping, you'd barely get off the ground, if you used this formula.

Not only does the flex/extend leg work happen quickly and explosively, but it must coincide with the entry/ending of the backswing. (Safin first two captions.)

[gzhpcu]

Oh well, back to the old drawing board... Will try...

[llll]

phil i still disagree alittle
did you try my drills???
look at the cylindar drill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c06ToXPyJYA

no legs just learning to use your upper body.
will you serve 120 this way probably not
but if you dont get the throwing motion and coming from the right side of your body as dons drill try to get you to do
you can forget about your legs
icbw
and tell me if i am
i am a student also who suffers from all the things in one way or another that phil does