Teaching the forehand return

[gsheiner]

I've got a question for the group on teaching/learning the forehand return.

Since the modern forehand takeback involves a full unit turn with the left hand on the racket for a significant period of time, is this causing students/players to have trouble with the forehand return, especially against pace on the first serve.

When I look at Agassi, Federer, Sampras, etc,. they all separate their hands immediately on the first serve forehand return. I wonder if this needs to be drilled as much as the not separating the hands early in the forehand groundstroke.

Do some students end up having trouble returning serve well off the forehand because they can't break the habit of keeping the left hand on the racket until the completion of the unit turn?

Thanks,

Glenn S.

[julian1]

Hewitt

I am NOT sure whether i address your question directly but
Hewitt below is a good model how to control a left hand correctly
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...DeuceFront.mov.
It is possible that students will do better on slower surfaces.

A second picture ( a female in a blue outfit) shows
how soon a left hand has to go back ( for righty)

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/footwork/david_bailey/contact_moves_return/low_spin/

Some drills without a ball/shadowing may help as well

julian mielniczuk Ph.D. uspta certified pro juliantennis@comcast.net
www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[gsheiner]

Thanks for the response Julian. In the Bailey article, it seemed that some of the returners ( for example Tsonga) are taking their full forehand preparation. Obviously, this will work for slower serves.

Check out the Agassi first serve return versus the groundstroke.
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...euceFront5.mov


http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...nterFront3.mov




On the return, his left hand separates from the right very early ( the shoulders haven't come close to 90%) while on the groundstroke the left hand stays on the racket until the shoulders have turned 90%.

Since Agassi is considered one of the greatest returners ever, I wonder if we should be looking at his technique in the same way that we study the Sampras serve or the Federer forehand. What makes Agassi's return so good? It is just eyesight and reflexes or are there any technical things he does. For example, should we train taking the left hand off the racket early?

Just my thoughts as I study the forehand return.

Glenn

[llll]

my 2 cents
as you learn the proper fundaamentals of the forehand you will modify as necessary.
how you hit a ball on the rise that lands near your feet for example
as you are exposed to more pace you will learn to prepare and do everything faster.
as you practice returns the timing of the left hand will come.
you wil learn or be tauught to "shorten your swing"
what happens to the left hand i think will happen naturally
once the stroke is ingrained

[llll]

another point dont you think most students have more trouble returning from the backhand side and the forehand side is less of a problem??
so your question might be more hypothetical??

[gsheiner]

Thanks for the feedback. Interestingly enough, I've observed, as you have, that at lower levels of play the backhand return is usually the weaker side. However, I've also observed that at higher levels of play that the forehand return is sometimes the weaker side --especially if a player has a two hander which can be very compact naturally.

[bowt]

do you think lleyton hewitt has ever thought about how long he leaves his left hand on the racket? I doubt it

I think the return is all about using your legs

[julian1]

I wish you could bring John into this conversation

Thanks for the response Julian. In the Bailey article, it seemed that some of the returners ( for example Tsonga) are taking their full forehand preparation. Obviously, this will work for slower serves.

Check out the Agassi first serve return versus the groundstroke.
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...euceFront5.mov


http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...nterFront3.mov




On the return, his left hand separates from the right very early ( the shoulders haven't come close to 90%) while on the groundstroke the left hand stays on the racket until the shoulders have turned 90%.

Since Agassi is considered one of the greatest returners ever, I wonder if we should be looking at his technique in the same way that we study the Sampras serve or the Federer forehand. What makes Agassi's return so good? It is just eyesight and reflexes or are there any technical things he does. For example, should we train taking the left hand off the racket early?

Just my thoughts as I study the forehand return.

Glenn

Dear Sir,

1.I wish you could bring John into this conversation.

2.Some time gains can be produced by going BACK(away from a ball) on a return of serve

3.Another subject which came up lately is TEACHING return of serve using either:

bigger balls like Wilson Rally 2 (I hope a remember a brand correctly)

http://usopentennisballs.blogia.com/

or

b.green foam balls from Prince


The last subject is quite exotic and I do NOT have an expertise here.
Just in case a link for green balls is

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Prince_Stage_1_Green_25_Reduced_Speed_Ball/descpagePRINCE-PBS1G.html

4.One more advanced topic is like that-
say one replaces,for some situations on an ADD SIDE, a backhand return of serve by inside out forehand return of serve.
What do you do with a left hand (for righty) for those situations?

One can see a videos of Moya in the archive to check his technique
in the case of situation described in item #4 above.

5.another subject is : "how much does a return of serve resemble
a half volley?" .
Do we teach both of them the same way?

Regards

julian mielniczuk Ph.D. uspta certified pro juliantennis@comcast.net
www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[gsheiner]

Julian,

Your response is much appreciated.

what I found most interesting is your raising the concept of a return ( presumably first) as a sort of half volley and that perhaps it should be taught that way.

Everybody talks about shortening the stroke and usually leaves it at that. I wonder if that is satisfactory. I also am curious as to the percentage of time that coaches spend teaching groundstrokes versus serve versus return versus volley etc.

Since everyone usually says that the serve and return are the two most important shots in tennis, I wonder if coaching time is spent to reflect that.

Glenn

[julian1]

A lot depends on a coach

A percentage of time spent teaching return of serve is very coach dependent.
I do around 10%.

Generally I am forced to work on return of serve when a student lost in a tournament etc,etc.
It is NOT the best approach but ...

Switching gears a bit.

A possible return of serve drill.
A private lesson.
I serve for 20 minutes at my student from a baseline.
The same speed,the same target point,the same kind of spin.
A level of a student 3.5 NTRP or higher.
It is probably possible to adjust for lower levels of students.
Before the drill described above I would discuss
stance,a grip and a footwork.I would mention what kind of bounce to expect.
I do allow for some variations of stance-please see articles by Bailey on
this one as well.
A link

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/footwork/david_bailey/contact_moves_return/low_spin/

I impose some constraints,for example a slice is NOT allowed on a forehand side.
If multiple errors do occur during a drill I stop and I try to discuss ONE
of them,a major one.

A classic one is that some returns will come short.
It is possible that you have better students so this problem does NOT show up.

Glenn,
I can provide more details but I am NOT sure whether
I am proceeding right direction i.e. is it what you want?

The drill described above does NOT work sometimes
mainly because of quality of my serve.

I do NOT like a possible version of a drill with a VERY SOFT serve.

I can expand a post above if any questions

Regards

julian mielniczuk Ph.D. uspta certified pro juliantennis@comcast.net
www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[vrc10s]

Serve return

Julian,

Your response is much appreciated.

what I found most interesting is your raising the concept of a return ( presumably first) as a sort of half volley and that perhaps it should be taught that way.

Everybody talks about shortening the stroke and usually leaves it at that. I wonder if that is satisfactory. I also am curious as to the percentage of time that coaches spend teaching groundstrokes versus serve versus return versus volley etc.

Since everyone usually says that the serve and return are the two most important shots in tennis, I wonder if coaching time is spent to reflect that.

Glenn

In my ladies groups and most of my men's groups we do live Serve/return drills at least 20 minutes of each hour group.