Learning Open Stance and Wiper swing early

[kakashi]

Thank you phil

Thank you very much i did watch it thank you....

Yes it does make sense...

see it is involve very loose arm and wrist.. but i still do believe wrist action is allowing this make it happen.. i mean wrist can do anything.. it can move forward wrist.. i mean baseball swing also involve wrist action but just going forward....



Thank you again

[gzhpcu]

Your welcome, kakashi. Thing is the wrist is loose and passive.

[10splayer]

Thank you very much i did watch it thank you....

Yes it does make sense...

see it is involve very loose arm and wrist.. but i still do believe wrist action is allowing this make it happen.. i mean wrist can do anything.. it can move forward wrist.. i mean baseball swing also involve wrist action but just going forward....



Thank you again

My own feeling is, that flexion (while it may occur to greater or lesser extent) is something that should almost be discouraged. Now showing a player how the entire unit turns over, (internal rotation of shoulder, pronation of forearm, radial deviation) is an important part of learning.

[gzhpcu]

Guess we all have different opinions. I notice I play better when I accentuate the racket head lag and the associated wrist flexion. Get more power and topspin.

[kakashi]

Exactly

Thank you 10stennisplayer and Phil..

For me I can accelerate more racket head speed and spin if you can combine wrist action with very relax arm and wrist...

i mean i do not think you can create great racket head speed and spin without usage of wrist.. and again this can be complicated when I teach
"How much wrist action we should use"

Wrist will involve for racket swing for sure. You can't swing the racket if your wrist is broken..

it is very very hard to explain, even you try to accelerate racket head speed with wrist, first 3 feet we don't see the wrist break.. this is different from Wrist SNAP...

Just like you are wrapping your right arm to your body.


Another example is you are like baseball pitcher and instead of throw to catcher you throw to first baseman

But for me just like phil said with very relax wrist and swing with wrist action help me a lot to play. And not to mention about feeling the shots..
For me, if i relax more, i can hit the ball harder.

Thank you guys.. i am getting lots of help...

[10splayer]

In the Fed photo, I see the predominant "wrist snap" movement as internal rotation, forearm pronation, and deviation. In the first caption, the racquet head is way below the hand, level with the hand at impact, and well above the hand post contact. Again, Im sure there is some flexion, but the principle movement is an up and across move. Not a forward snap. (flexion) Just my 02 cents.

[kakashi]

Thank you

thank you 10stennisplayer...

I mean this is mystery.. and it is best to ask mr federer....=)

[tennis_chiro]

Take a look at the third photo

In the Fed photo, I see the predominant "wrist snap" movement as internal rotation, forearm pronation, and deviation. In the first caption, the racquet head is way below the hand, level with the hand at impact, and well above the hand post contact. Again, Im sure there is some flexion, but the principle movement is an up and across move. Not a forward snap. (flexion) Just my 02 cents.

I have to agree. I don't think you can get your arm and racket into that position (the 12 o'clock one in the third picture of Fed) without having the wrist laid back. It is after this point that the wrist releases and goes to the flexed position you see in the last picture. But from a few inches before contact to that 12 o'clock position, there is not much wrist flexion. It's not locked. It's a passive hinge, trying to keep the racket face aimed in the right direction, as Phil suggested earlier. If you snap through this area, you will end up misdirecting the ball 90% of the time.

don

[kakashi]

Thank you

Thank you Chiro for your respond...

but how come Djorkovic mentioned in his lesson he said "if I want to produce more spin, i use more wrist work"
He also said he doesn't want to use too much wrist for his backhand...
What do you think about this???

He even talked about usage of wrist for serve...



thank you

[tennis_chiro]

Djokovic, a great player

Thank you Chiro for your respond...

but how come Djorkovic mentioned in his lesson he said "if I want to produce more spin, i use more wrist work"
He also said he doesn't want to use too much wrist for his backhand...
What do you think about this???

He even talked about usage of wrist for serve...



thank you

I think Djokovic is a great player with one of the greatest forehands I have ever seen, but if he starts to think too much about how he does it, he will not be able to do it much longer. I'd rather talk to the person that taught him how to do what he does.
don

[kakashi]

Thank you again

I do not think he can explain 100% how he does it but i think he can show you how he does it....

but thank you very much for your help....

but there is no doubt if I teach wiper swing to starter player, i tell them to draw the line or path.. i won't mention about wrist.. after they get the idea of line or path then they can add little bit of more action.


Thank you again

[tennis_chiro]

The wrist and the wiper

I do not think he can explain 100% how he does it but i think he can show you how he does it....

but thank you very much for your help....

but there is no doubt if I teach wiper swing to starter player, i tell them to draw the line or path.. i won't mention about wrist.. after they get the idea of line or path then they can add little bit of more action.


Thank you again

I was looking at some Oscar Wegner videos today. It is interesting to note that as big an advocate of the wiper as Oscar, promotes the "Racket Bracket" which totally eliminates any wrist flexion. That's because the wrist action Novak thinks he is talking about is actually internal rotation of the arm and maybe just a little radial deviation of the wrist.
don

[gzhpcu]

In the Fed photo, I see the predominant "wrist snap" movement as internal rotation, forearm pronation, and deviation. In the first caption, the racquet head is way below the hand, level with the hand at impact, and well above the hand post contact. Again, Im sure there is some flexion, but the principle movement is an up and across move. Not a forward snap. (flexion) Just my 02 cents.

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Once again, semantics rears its head. You are right Larry... I meant "extension" - not "flexion". The hand extending backwards before coming forward...

[kakashi]

Thanks guys!!!

Thanks guys!!

it has been great help for me... now i got to explain this to student...

right!!! it is palm out action.. just like you are drawing big circle on wall...

you can see Federere's racket or palm is out to opponent.

just like his palm is drawing the circle.... but wrist is released not blocked...

his finger start point to his right and end his right....

This is palm out swing and this will leads to wiper swing...

And yes if you watch Djorkovic's wing, he has palm out swing.. when they said wrist.. he means palm out movement...

What you think about it??

Thank you so much again

[BrianGordon]

While I'm around stating the obvious about the serve toss, I will say the wrist integration on the forehand is something I've looked at a lot recently. I will report my findings in more detail later but have found there is forward hand motion (from wrist joint motion) to varying degrees on the forehand in most cases (more wrist flexion with eastern grips and more ulnar deviation with western grips). This motion is far from passive and is used mostly to control racquet orientation and not so much for racquet head speed (for high level players). How the whole thing works blew my mind - I suspect many here will also be surprised!