The 'jewel' of Roddick's serve

[vmiller]

Great Article John!

First, I wanted to point out that I can remember sequencing through Sampras clips and seeing the racquet head go to the outside of his hand (or towards the right alley as you put it) during the upward swing. Maybe it's not as significant, but I think it's at least there. I'll search through some clips if you don't agree.

In the past, I've experimented with getting into the 'trophy position' with my forearm supinated which I think is basically the equivelant of starting off with your arm positioned in a way that will naturally cause the racquet to 'go out towards the right alley' during the upward swing to the ball. Someone on TW equated it to doing a salute in the trophy position. Similar to what you said in the article, I found that I needed a more abbreviated or deliberate (not as loose and fluid) wind up to do it. Also similar is that I found my elbow closing more. I definitely did notice more force going into the ball and it seemed effortless. It was especially notable on overheads and I was shocked a few times at how loud the sound of impact was. All I think is happening is that there is more distance for pronation. Goes to show how effective pronation really is!

I should also add that I was experimenting with using my back foot at the same time.

This was all during the winter and I have since gone back to trying to follow the Sampras model because I enjoy a more loose and fluid swing, but I have to admit that I was serving much better while using my rear foot and the supinated wind up. Now you've got me wanting to go back!

Vin

[johnyandell]

No one ever said high speed video analysis was easy...And as I responded in another post, the Roddick articles are meant to be explanatory--not necessarily serving gospel so far as teaching.

The funny thing is Vin, that having looked at the video of your serve, none of these issues are really related to what, in my humble opinion, could improve in your motion!

But it's fun to experiment. RE: Sampras and others and the outside racket position. I think there could be some of that going on. But in showing the footage to a lot of coaches, no one had every seen anything that looked like Andy--that's quite an angle between the racket and the torso...

[vmiller]

Well, you make it look easy! Regardless of whether the Roddick article is explanation or serving gospel, it was a great read and each month I've been looking forward to your new articles.

I respect your opinion and was leaning towards staying away from the Roddick stuff anyway. As crazy as it may sound, if I was given the option of having any pro's serve, I think I would choose Sampras' over Roddick's. Who knows what it really feels like to serve like Sampras, but when I get my version of the Sampras serve going well, man does it feel great. The problem is when it's not going well it feels horrible.

I hope staying straight at the waist and better balance will help get me there. I've been having trouble with it, but I think I'm making progress. I'll think I have it down until I take more video and see otherwise. The pain and beauty of video! For something that seems so simple, it's really not, but I guess that's what bad habits are all about. I at least had a few serves where I was straighter at the waist during my leg drive and my right leg didn't come around my side and end up in front of me like it normally does. It still didn't kick back though. Balance looked decent too, or at least better. I've also found the bending at the wasit to be interrelated with my tossing motion and focusing on tossing more into the court has helped.

Here's a kind of random question. How does Pete's typical first serve percentage compare to Andy's?

[asman]

I've read the article about Roddick's serve. It's interesting, but I don't find so many key differences compared to Sampras motion. It's different the rhythm of execution, Pete has a higher toss and a more majestic opening in trophy position. And he turns more with shoulders. Maybe his movement, so easy on eyes, requires great coordination and elasticity. I think Pete' serve is the best shot of ever in tennis, Federer is quite identical. Roddick delivers more power using more the legs thrust. Maybe also his kind of racquet is far more powerful than pro staff, but it's less accurate. The key for a good serve is ralxation and fluid rhythm. To me, Sampras and Federer represent the tennis as it should be played. Flawless, complete, varied, disguising, powerful, accurate, elegant, aestetichally classic, technically modern. I don't like to watch Roddick serve, even if it's so effective!
Bye!