Nadal's 130 plus MPH serve

[uspta146749877]

Attached image

FYI:
I cannot see an attached image

[uspta146749877]

Brian Gordon

Brian Gordon would be a good person to ask which grip produces a faster serve

[blake_b]

I looked at my post on two different computers, with two different browsers, and I was able to see the attachement, so I am not sure why you cannot see it.

When I get some time, I will post something in John Y's section asking him about this.

Blake

[johnyandell]

It's an interesting question but I have to admit I have not gone back and tried to trace the evolution (or not) of Nadal's grips. In general, yeah the more extreme bh grips are associated with more spin and less speed, but the ball position has to do with this too. Nadal is pretty far to the right relative to Fed or say Pete, as Phil pointed out.

[uspta146749877]

A possible link

I looked at my post on two different computers, with two different browsers, and I was able to see the attachement, so I am not sure why you cannot see it.

When I get some time, I will post something in John Y's section asking him about this.

Blake

You may provide me with a link instead of an attachment.

[gzhpcu]

Here someone says that the change in the trophy pose improved Rafa's serve, not the grip change...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg&feature=sub

[uspta1366106393]

I don't this USPTA members get attachments.

[uspta146749877]

Hi

I don't this USPTA members get attachments.

I do NOT follow your post-please clarify
Thank you
julian

[uspta990770809]

Great analysis

Here someone says that the change in the trophy pose improved Rafa's serve, not the grip change...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg&feature=sub

I don't know who "xstf" on youtube is, Phil, but he is right on. I always try to get my students to understand the line the elbows have to reach (and not exceed) in achieving the trophy position is the line from elbow to elbow. A good trophy position has the right (for righties) elbow in line with the line created by the upper left arm and the clatvicles (collar bones). For example, Sampras appears to have a very low right elbow until you examine it in the context of this line of the shoulders and clavicles. The backswing needs to get the elbow up to that line and, furthermore, should not rotate the elbow above that line as xstf is pointing out here, before the actual move up to contact.

But I still think he's going to serve even bigger when he figures out how to use the full continental with 100% of the possible pronation (and internal rotation after rereading Brian Gordon's serve articles). And the improved trophy position pointed out here is going to make it even easier for him to do that. Rafa serving in the 140's by next Wimbledon. That will cause some problems!

don

[uspta146749877]

tape

Here someone says that the change in the trophy pose improved Rafa's serve, not the grip change...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfA3RlAXpdg&feature=sub

1.I have at least one objection vs this particular tape-
I do NOT like comparing one static photo vs a dynamic movie.
It is possible that an author of a tape did NOT have a choice


2.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rafael_nadal/rn_serve/rn_1st_serve/rn_1st_serve.html?RN1stSDeuceFront1.mov

does NOT show a straight arm problem discussed in www.tennisoxygen.com
To see that one should go frame by frame
julian

[blake_b]

The following is the link for the picture to which I refer in my above post. The link goes to a slide show, and I am referring to the third picture of Nadal where he is facing the camera.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...rvingArms.html

If the link does not work it is in the Serving Arms link in the Tour Portraits section of this web site.

[uspta146749877]

An author of a tape/video

I don't know who "xstf" on youtube is, Phil, but he is right on. I always try to get my students to understand the line the elbows have to reach (and not exceed) in achieving the trophy position is the line from elbow to elbow. A good trophy position has the right (for righties) elbow in line with the line created by the upper left arm and the clatvicles (collar bones). For example, Sampras appears to have a very low right elbow until you examine it in the context of this line of the shoulders and clavicles. The backswing needs to get the elbow up to that line and, furthermore, should not rotate the elbow above that line as xstf is pointing out here, before the actual move up to contact.

But I still think he's going to serve even bigger when he figures out how to use the full continental with 100% of the possible pronation (and internal rotation after rereading Brian Gordon's serve articles). And the improved trophy position pointed out here is going to make it even easier for him to do that. Rafa serving in the 140's by next Wimbledon. That will cause some problems!

don

Please see

http://www.tennisoxygen.com/content/view/7/20/

[uspta990770809]

So xstf is Chrisoffe Delavaut?

Please see
http://www.tennisoxygen.com/content/view/7/20/

Yeah, I missed the logo on the youtube video. So the speaker must be Christoffe. He's done a nice job here.

[uspta146749877]

Audio part like a marketing

Yeah, I missed the logo on the youtube video. So the speaker must be Christoffe. He's done a nice job here.

I disagree about an audio part

[uspta990770809]

Julian, what do you really think?

I disagree about an audio part

Come on, Julian. You must have read Gordon's series on the serve at least as many times as I have. On top of that, you have the most recent stuff he and Yandell did with the motion capture analysis on Sampras's serve that showed he got 40 of 90 MPH of racket head speed in the last couple of hundreths of a second, from a combination of internal rotation and pronation that we normally refer to as pronation although it's just as much or more internal rotation, and it works better with the more truely continental grip than a somewhat more Eastern forehand grip. Instead of talking about semantics and what where came from, what do you yourself with your physicists analytical mind think about the primary question: where is Nadal getting the additional speed while maintaining his high percentages? I think Christoffe (if that is who gave that answer) has a pretty good explanation. Don't give me a link. Tell us what you think!

don