Nadal's 130 plus MPH serve

[gzhpcu]

This photo was taken during the match against Youhzny. Don't think you get such an angle between forearm and racket shaft with an eastern forehand grip...

[uspta146749877]

Question

This photo was taken during the match against Youhzny. Don't think you get such an angle between forearm and racket shaft with an eastern forehand grip...

I do NOT understand your post-do you agree with post#15 above?

[gzhpcu]

All I am saying is that IMHO it does not look like an eastern forehand grip to me.

[uspta146749877]

Just to clarify

All I am saying is that IMHO it does not look like an eastern forehand grip to me.

1.The claim from TW was:
"it is a grip between continental and and eastern forehand grip"
2.I am not sure whether it is used in this picture
3.I am NOT sure whether it is ALWAYS used by Nadal

[uspta990770809]

Great picture!

Whatever else. What a great picture. But that 1st knuckle is awful close to a continental. The racket shaft-forearm angle is a great argument for pronation. We need someone with my Casio at 210 fps or even 420 to show what happens to the inside edge of the racket in the next frame!

[uspta990770809]

Compare to Sampras, First Serve Deuce Court Arm Action

Need someone who knows how to flip Rafa to a righty. It would, of course, switch the picture to the deuce court. Then compare to the frame from the clip of Sampras's First Serve Deuce Court Arm Action #2

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/petesampras/ps_serve/ps_serve_armaction/ps_serve_armaction.html?PS1stSDeuceArmActionRear2.mov

[gzhpcu]

Here you go....

Sampras tosses the ball more to the left...

[uspta990770809]

Pretty good serves!

Just judging by the pictures, you'd have to really like Nadal's action an awful lot, probably a little better extension than Pete. The grip is clearly not quite as far to the continental/backhand as Pete's, but it's not that far behind. I still think Rafa will figure out how to do everything he is already doing so well can be done with even more effect when he learns how to control just the little bit more pronation he will get as the grip goes a little further. After all, just 6or7% more and he is in the 140s!

don

[stumphges]

The Nadal serve photo in this thread looks like continental to me. Definitely not eastern forehand - I don't know where that came from.

[uspta146749877]

grip

Supposedly John McEnroe
See

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/2010/09/14/the-world-according-to-rafael-nadal-lessons-learned-and-still-learning/

A quote below from a forum of
Jim McLennan
Essential Tennis Instruction

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com

---->
Phil
September 14, 2010 at 11:31 pm

P.S.
Do you know what the grip change was?

*
Jim
September 15, 2010 at 10:02 am · Reply

Phil – I am not sure. I did notice his wide serve to the deuce court was much improved (sort of like McEnroe’s serve that Bud Collins called the can opener) and I heard McEnroe say that the grip moved a little closer to the Eastern forehand – but this is just a hunch – somehow I either think or wish he went further to the Eastern backhand and found more action from that grip – I am and will continue to investigate – keep me posted if you learn something
best
Jim

[gzhpcu]

Supposedly John McEnroe
See

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com/2010/09/14/the-world-according-to-rafael-nadal-lessons-learned-and-still-learning/

A quote below from a forum of
Jim McLennan
Essential Tennis Instruction

http://www.essentialtennisinstruction.com

---->
Phil
September 14, 2010 at 11:31 pm

P.S.
Do you know what the grip change was?

*
Jim
September 15, 2010 at 10:02 am · Reply

Phil – I am not sure. I did notice his wide serve to the deuce court was much improved (sort of like McEnroe’s serve that Bud Collins called the can opener) and I heard McEnroe say that the grip moved a little closer to the Eastern forehand – but this is just a hunch – somehow I either think or wish he went further to the Eastern backhand and found more action from that grip – I am and will continue to investigate – keep me posted if you learn something
best
Jim

Know it... I posted the question to Jim...

[blake_b]

In my experience when I move my grip towards an eastern backhand grip, I get more spin and less velocity, and when I move towards an eastern forehand I get more velocity and less spin. I am not actually moving to an eastern backhand or forehand, but moving the continental from an extreme continental to a weak continental.

If you hold your racket at full service extension with a strong continental or an eastern backhand you will see that it is tilted back to the left at contact which will impart more of a topspin component. If you hold the racket with a weak continental or a eastern forehand you will see that the racket if more straight up and down at contact which will produce a flatter ball.

In Chris Lewit's article on Developing the Kick serve (in the classic lessons section of this site) he advocates using a strong continental to develop the kick serve. He states that some velocity is lost, but not as much as with an eastern backhand grip.

I am guessing that Nadal moved from a strong continental or eastern backhand to a weaker continental, and this gave him less spin and more velocity.

Blake

[uspta146749877]

Jim disagrees with blake_b

Know it... I posted the question to Jim...

Please see that Jim MC. disagrees with blake_b about which grip is the best for speed

[blake_b]

I am certainly no expert, but I have experimented with my own grip to learn how to get more topspin on my serve.

It is more interesting that Jim McLennan disagrees with Chris Lewit who wrote a four part series on the kick serve for tennisplayer.net. The following is Chris's full quote on the topic.

"Whatever you want to call it, I believe in this "strong continental," with the index knuckle very near bevel 1 (top bevel). This grip promotes heavy spin without slowing down the ball too much, as a more extreme backhand serve grip can do. I also believe players can hit the first serve with this grip, rather than making a dramatic grip change between first and second serves, which can hurt disguise. "

It is an easy experiment to perform for yourself. When I use an eastern backhand or strong continental grip my serve kicks considerably higher, but rarely hits the back fence in the air. When I use a weaker continental grip my serve does not kick as high, but often hits the back fence in the air. The same thing happens for a friend of mine, although I realize that two people's results do not constitute scientific proof. However, Chris has worked with a large number of students.

I would be interested to hear John Y.'s opinion on this subject.

I found the following older picture of Nadal in the Tour Portraits section of this site. It is a little hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like he already had a pretty strong continental grip.

[uspta146749877]

John

Hi,
I would advise to put a post in a section
"have question for me".
He reads this section