Interactive Forum August 2010: Andy Murray Serve And Forehand: High Speed in High Def

[stotty]

Looking at Andy Murray's serve action, I felt that he does one thing a bit different: As he finishes his stroke, his left arm/tossing arm does not stay at his mid-section, it fleshes out to his left; and I think this explains his double faults! I may be wrong.

Look at my post earlier in the thread...it explains a few things

[johnyandell]

Hey guys been consumed in Cincy. But don't really have an answer on the pronation mystery. Brian may know about the racket head speed. It's an interesting overall question and may be related to other factors in the swing or physicality of player as well.

Stotty--very interesting post about Murray as a junior!

[uspta146749877]

Another post on the same subject

see as well

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=341769

especially the post #22

[gzhpcu]

since this got overlooked please comment on this.

Larry, IMHO: I am sure we all agree that pronation is not consciously forced. Ergo, it would seem to me that Murray's arm is not relaxed enough, inhibiting a full pronation.

[uspta146749877]

A related post

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=344132&page=2

post #24 a BIT related to a conversation in this thread

[llll]

Larry, IMHO: I am sure we all agree that pronation is not consciously forced. Ergo, it would seem to me that Murray's arm is not relaxed enough, inhibiting a full pronation.

makes sense. i can buy that explanation

[johnyandell]

...or lacks the flexibility or there is something about the upward swing path we haven't fully understood. If you look at the actual position of his racket when it starts up I wonder if this has something to do with it...

[rstrecker]

Andy's Serve v Pete's and Pronation

Clearly, Andy's results show he has a top serve, especially his recent wins. When I look at the serve and think about John's analysis of Pete Sampras' serve versus everyone else's it looks to me like Andy drives his trunk forward more than Pete and he also stretches his arm and wrist more in a forward direction than Pete which reduces the pronation. He hits with his arm further to the right of his body and with the racket head more vertical rather than still rising as Pete does. Definitely NOT the 125 mph kick that John likes to describe for Pete. I think his speed to spin ratio is probably more toward speed. I would guess the serve is not as heavy as Pete's but with Andy's height, he can get great angles.

[uspta146749877]

Let me break my neck

Clearly, Andy's results show he has a top serve, especially his recent wins. When I look at the serve and think about John's analysis of Pete Sampras' serve versus everyone else's it looks to me like Andy drives his trunk forward more than Pete and he also stretches his arm and wrist more in a forward direction than Pete which reduces the pronation. He hits with his arm further to the right of his body and with the racket head more vertical rather than still rising as Pete does. Definitely NOT the 125 mph kick that John likes to describe for Pete. I think his speed to spin ratio is probably more toward speed. I would guess the serve is not as heavy as Pete's but with Andy's height, he can get great angles.

Say that you are an Andy's coach.
Would you tell him to keep his serve as it is
or would you tell him to "increase" pronation?

[llll]

i would probably have him try more pronation and see what happened. my guess he would go back to whats more familiar.
on the other hand if its not very broken do you need to "fix" it??
look at aggassi

[uspta146749877]

How do u define an improvement here?

i would probably have him try more pronation and see what happened. my guess he would go back to whats more familiar.
on the other hand if its not very broken do you need to "fix" it??
look at aggassi

How would you define an improvement here?
Say more pronation would :
1.increase percentage of serve IN by 5 %
but
2.decrease speed by 5%

Would you take it?

[gzhpcu]

Just my opinion:

Seems to me that by pronating more, you will hit across the ball more. This should help you serve wide on the ad court more.

Also, rhe window of acceptance improves because by hitting partially across as opposed to only up, there is more room for error in the horizontal component as opposed to only the vertical component (of the window of acceptance).

[llll]

How would you define an improvement here?
Say more pronation would :
1.increase percentage of serve IN by 5 %
but
2.decrease speed by 5%

Would you take it?

improvement would be increased % first serve in AND increased pace.
HEAVIER serve would be a big measure of improvement.
only thing is unless you get john to do his spin analysis murray would need feedback from his hitting partners that the serve was heavier so he would have the confidence to use it in a match and see if the % of unreturnable /weak returns increased.

[ldaley]

arms up together

It's interesting that Andy's arms both go up a the same time in his service motion while other players have a scissor like motions with the racquet arm following after the ball tossing arm is already in the air. Does it make a difference together or apart?

Andy Murray Serve And Forehand: High Speed in High Def

[johnyandell]

Check out Doug Eng's great series in Tour Strokes on service rhythm--he addresses that issue and a lot more related...