John, any comments on my rallying?

[gzhpcu]

Am still working on it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuBvWtUYk_4

[johnyandell]

Turn looks faster harder fuller.

[gzhpcu]

Here is another rally....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU9-1_BOO50

[uspta990770809]

Getting inside

Phil,
I'm very interested in seeing John's analysis. I've had a few students with a similar stroke. I feel it is a requirement that before you hit the ball you have to get "inside". And this is part of the reason you make that little wiggle as you swing forward. You have to get to a point where the racket head is inside the extension away from contact of the intended line of your shot. A simpler way to say that is you have to get the butt of the racket to point at the contact point and the momentum that you generate only counts marginally until you reach that position (where the butt of the racket points at the contact point). When you start your forward swing the butt of your racket is pointed well to your left or your left of the contact point. The "wiggle" brings it inside, but that means you are only generating momentum and power fully from that point forward.

The other part you already mentioned, the shoulder turn. I have a drill I do with students to get them to feel the use of the legs and shoulders to power the forehand. (or backhand) For someone your size, I would use a 8 to 10 pound medicine ball and have you throw it with a forehand motion, trying to incorporate the assistance of a gravity drop. Your right hand would be mostly behind the medicine ball so you can follow the course of your stroke. Your left hand would have to hold the ball against your right so you can emulate the vertical racket face with the palm of your hand. But this drill is very effective for feeling the way the body has to work to power that stroke.

As another person participating in his 8th decade on the planet (2010 to 2019), I appreciate the spring in your step. But you could get a lot more effortless power if you incorporate a little more body in your stroke. You won't be able to throw that medicine ball from "outside" and you won't be able to really use your body on your forehand until you get a little more inside earlier in the forward swing.

But in any case, great hitting in a beautiful court.

don brosseau

[gzhpcu]

Thanks for the comments Don...

Just a question to your comments in the first paragraph to make sure I fully understand:
I usually at the end of the backswing, prior to coming forward, use a stretch-shorten movement to gain racket acceleration. Is this what you are referring to?

[uspta990770809]

The stretch-shorten "wiggle"

Thanks for the comments Don...

Just a question to your comments in the first paragraph to make sure I fully understand:
I usually at the end of the backswing, prior to coming forward, use a stretch-shorten movement to gain racket acceleration. Is this what you are referring to?

Phil,
I call it a wiggle, but it is as you say a stretch-shorten movement that does give you additional racket head speed. But it also moves the racket head "inside" to a point where you can swing the momentum of the racket head toward the target. Otherwise, you would be limited to a glancing blow as the racket moves across the ball from your right to left. By the time you get done with that "wiggle", it is too late for your hips and shoulders to apply much force to the stroke. This core generation of power has to happen well before the actual contact of the ball. Things are happening just too fast at that point. We all feel like we are turning our hips and shoulders through the shot when we hit it well, but in reality, the kinetic chain fired those engines (I'm strictly guessing here) a good foot or more(in the path of the racket head) before the ball is actually contacted. The four thousanths of a second that we are actually contacting the ball might constitute as much as 6 or 8 inches in a 80 or 90 mph stroke, but I haven't been able to make one of those swings on a groundstroke for at least 30 years (if ever). But we can feel the direction of the flow of the momentum of the racket head through the contact zone and that is what you want to extend to gain control and pace on your forehand. Check the drills with the heavy racket in my second article (at least I think it's the second, under Classic Lessons) to give you an idea of what I mean about the direction of the momentum of the racket.

I'll be looking for John's analysis, but I think you would do better to let the backswing get a little further inside and incorporate a slightly higher position after the unit turn so you get a little assistance from the gravity drop. Then you won't need as much of a "stretch-shorten movement" to get the racket head going.

Good luck with it,

don brosseau

[10splayer]

Thanks for the comments Don...

Just a question to your comments in the first paragraph to make sure I fully understand:
I usually at the end of the backswing, prior to coming forward, use a stretch-shorten movement to gain racket acceleration. Is this what you are referring to?

I feel like the president of the Don B fan club, but alas I think he has it right again. Gzpcu, He is just recommending that you start the forward swing more inside(i.e. closer to your torso). This allows you to create an inside-out swing path to contact, and conserve angular momentum. If you look at the position of your racquet/hand at the beginning of the forward swing, it's too much directly behind the flight line of the ball, which creates too straight of a swing line. At least that's my interpretation.

[gzhpcu]

Good point Don and Larry. Will try it out... (but the stretch-shorten wiggle I'll keep...)

[uspta990770809]

Other Player With A "wiggle"

There are those that would say that Swiss has-been with the 16 major titles has a bit of a "wiggle", but he definitely gets to the inside.

[tennisplayer]

Hi Phil, I have been trying to do the same thing as you, which is to maximize the strech-shortening effect in the arm/wrist, a la Federer, or so I thought. I now think this is a red herring. For reference, see the following Federer forehand:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/pro_men/roger_federer/v2/roger_federer_high_speed_v2.html?FHCenterSide-0002720-0001.mov

The wrist laying back further as the arm accelerates forward happens very early in the stroke. Racquet head speed is really achieved by the overall kinetic scheme - the legs, hips, shoulders, and upper arm. In comparison, the wrist laying back due to racquet's inertia and the resultant loading of the arm seems miniscule, a side effect of the big forces created by the body. IMO, by focusing too much on the SS effect on the forearm, you may be missing out on the major sources of power in the stroke. I stopped thinking about the "wiggle" and started concentrating on the other aspects, and have had much better results in terms of power and spin. I keep my arm and wrist very loose, however, so some layback will happen automatically, I suppose.

[gzhpcu]

What I try to do, is at the bottom of the backswing, pronounce wrist flexion (and supination of the forearm) and begin to accelerate forward, with the racket lagging behind. But I am just trying to achieve it by duplicating the "feel", not really doing all I described...

[10splayer]

What I try to do, is at the bottom of the backswing, pronounce wrist flexion (and supination of the forearm) and begin to accelerate forward, with the racket lagging behind. But I am just trying to achieve it by duplicating the "feel", not really doing all I described...

Not understanding how the stretch shortening cycle (the ballistic loading in the form of external/internal rotation of an arm) has anything to do with creating a proper inside/out swing path. You would be much better served working on allowing the hands to "come in" before the forward swing. Just my 02 cents.

[gzhpcu]

Well larry, different things work for different people...

[10splayer]

Well larry, different things work for different people...

who's Larry?