Topspin?

[satishglk]

Iam a Subscriber of Tennisplayer (Userid:satishglk). I just want to thank
you for the vast amount of information that is there on this site. It is
extremely useful and very helpful for people like me.

I do apologise for bugging you with a rather basic question. However it is
my belief that you probably have seen tons of people of my skill (a
3.0/3.5) and many would have benifitted from your advise and coaching and i
can be one among them.

With out taking a lot of your time let me describe my problem.

Iam a 3.0/3.5 player (using a 8 pts HH, 110in, 9.4 OZ Wilson hammer LT) . My
strokes are mostly Pushes and slices with occasional flat shots.

I tried changing to SW Forehand Grip few days ago. However i am not sure iam getting any topspin. I still feel as if i am hitting(or trying to) the ball
flat. I read one of the articles on tennisplayer which talks about "mental
image". It indicates that the mental image for a SW should be Racquet above
wrist.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/classiclessons/kerry_mitchell/Mitchell_Forehand_Grips_images/Mitchell_Forehand_Grips.html

So when i contact the ball should my racquet be above the wrist in an
inclined position?. When i contact the ball what is my racquet position to
the Ground/Hand/ball?.

Is there anything else i can do to ease myself to be able to get TopSpin?.
How much of an issue is the racquet iam using.

I once happened to have a group class and the instructor indicated that i am
using a too poweful racquet for my skill level and that is one of reason for
having less control of the shots. Iam not sure how much Racquet is
contributing to this as opposed to my poor technique.

Any help you can provide will be extremely helpful to me.

Thanks,
SATISH

[johnyandell]

First, the easy part. Get rid of the racket. Get something with a conventional beam and even balance to head light balance that weighs 11-12.5 oz. Head, Wilson, Babolat, Vokl all make some version of this type of racket. Superlight, high power rackets are bogus--they don't promote good strokes and are dangerous to your joints!The second question regarding topspin isn't easy to answer, because the question is based on some assumptions that aren't really valid. You can't somehow isolate "topspin" as a separate factor that is independent of the rest of the stroke. If you have no followthrough and the ball goes long, the answer isn't to close your hand at contact to try and hit more tosppin!
Most people that write in with this question (and most players at your level in general) tend to have fundamental flaws in preparation, contact, hitting arm and/or finish. Topspin flows as a natural consequence of good technique and can be generated effortlessly then, but not otherwise.

I'd recommend you go to the Advanced Tennis section and work through those articles on the forehand, starting with the one on the commonalities. I think Kerry's article is more advanced--once your fundamentals are sound, then that type of imagery can be helpful for some players. Also read the myth of the wrist article on the forehand. That shows the path of the racket and the hitting arm position you need for a solid topspin forehand.

In reality, the best and only effective way to evaluate your stroke is to video it and compare it to models on the key positions. Consider doing that and even submitting it here for analysis in your strokes!

Regards,
John Yandell

[satishglk]

Hi,

Thanks a lot for your suggestions..

I did couple of things..

1) i dumped the old racquet and picked up a Babalot Pure drive team PLUS.
A friend loned me that and iam considering buying it. I liked the way this racquet plays and for whatever reason iam yet to comprehend, i am very comfortable at the Net with this racquet too (compare with earlier when the only time i was at net is to shake hands)

2) I analyzed the forehand videos on the stroke archive over and over and over. For no apparent reason i have a vivid memory of Juan carlos ferrero's Forehand stroke.

What i read from all these videos is that their ARM to Wrist angle is close to 90degrees when the contact is made (mine ....my arm and wrist are on the same plane.It is as if iam trying to hit the ball with my palm). I tried adjusting this and altered my stroke to point the BUTT of racquet towards net during stroke preparation and then tried to come down and up on the ball.
This approach gave me some measurable success and once in a while i do get top spin.

The issue i have now (please also correct me if i made any invalid assumptions above) is .....

do i make the contact wid the ball as if BALL is a wall and iam tying to paint the wall with my racquet (as a brush) by going bottom to Up? is that when i get more topspin?

Or i try hitting forward until after point of contact and then start turning the racquet in an arc towards my left hand side?

Once again i really appreciate your time and advise.

Thanks
SATISH

[johnyandell]

Sat,

Good move on the racket!

My main recommendation is to send in some video for Your Strokes. As I note in these answers, it's very tough to visualize what players are doing from verbal descriptions--if they are in fact describing it accurately.

Having said that--go to Advanced Tennis and read the Myth of the Wrist: Forehand. You need to develop the hitting arm position--elbow in, wrist laid back. That's the most basic element in establishing the contact and hitting topspin. I wouldn't worry about trying to windshield wiper the finish for now.

So your description of painitng the wall is more like it. Brushing up the back of the ball with you racket face and the palm of the hand is another way to describe it.

You need that position and you start forward at contact and well out into the followthrough. Fererro is as good an example as any so sure use that image!

[tennismaverick]

How do you hit excessive, inordinate, Bjorn Borg type topspin? I can hit moderate topspin but I can’t hit excessive Bjorn Borg type topspin and I don’t know why. It looks like people hit topspin differently. Some use the windshield wiper method and others brush up the back of the ball in a crescent moon shape. It seems like most pros hit with the windshield wiper stroke except when they hit what looks like the reverse forehand. Where the racquet goes in a crescent moon shape swing path and ends up on the same side of the body it started on. Women pros seem to do this more than the men. I am not sure why that is. But talking to different tennis instructors I have gotten several different and varied answers on how to hit topspin. One difference is that some instructors told me that when hitting topspin you don’t lead with the butt of the racquet nearly as much as when hitting through the ball. Others say it doesn’t matter. Some say use your shoulder more and other say use your wrist more and others say use your elbow more. Some say go over the ball and others say brush up in a vertical fashion. Some say hit the ball as if you are cupping it in your hand as you brush up on it. Some say the very last nanosecond is the most important time to accelerate the racquet upwards and forward and others say the entire backswing is equally important. Some say hit the ball further out in front of you and others say hit it further back than usual. Its very confusing and it is hard to tell what the pros are doing when I look at the videos. So could you, your staff or any of the members please tell me in great detail how to hit excessive, Bjorn Borg type topspin? Or point me towards a good article or book on it. Thanks.

[johnyandell]

OK let's start by examining the assumptions in your statements. Why is it you think that you want to hit that type of topspin? There may be an assumption that defacto topspin is good and desirable. It's not that simple. Topspin is not a magic bullet--it also isn't some detached factor that can be magically grafted onto a stroke. It can hurt as much as it can help. But assume you are striving for the right amount of spin for your game and ability level and the specific court/shot situation.

Hitting consistent topspin requires a sound technical foundation. I've seen it time and time again--players think that their problem is spin--or lack thereof--but the problem turns out to be with the fundamental structure of the stroke.

If you are truly fundamentally sound, then more topspin is a matter of variation in the basic pattern. It is either brushing up and/or turning the hand and racket over in the so-called wiper. You can clearly see both factors working in the Nadal clip. Use the palm of the hand to go up the back of the ball. Turn the hand and arm over as a unit. (See the Hand and Arm Rotation article in Advanced Tennis.)

If you really have a feel for the turn, the contact and the finish in the basic stroke, you will naturally feel how a little more brush and/or rotation gives you the ability to hit your same stroke but with more spin. Those are the two factors to emphasize.

That's why I would never write an article on "topspin" per se. You have to see it in the context of the entire motion. I wouldn't say things like lead more (or less) with the butt, use more elbow, use more wrist etc. This is isolating factors that shouldn't be thought of so independently. It won't work.

The amount of spin also depends on the natural ability of the player. If your motion is sound, you will have the ability to generate the spin God intends you to generate. If you were Bjorn Borg, then you would be Bjorn Borg--and you'd be able to hit his spin--which by the way is probably fairly moderate by today's standards. The question is what's right for you? I can't answer that so I've never seen you hit a ball.

If you send in some video, I can give you some more specific input.

But to get back to the first question--Why?--topspin shouldn't be thought of as an end in itself. Please give me the opponent that hits a ball that lands on the service line with a lot of spin! You have to see it in the context with speed and trajectory to figure out whether you need more--in many cases players actually need less. Yeah it's a big factor in the ground game and can combine with speed to make a ball heavy, but it has to be evaluated in a broader context to be truly understood for it's roll in creating weapons and winning matches.

[tennismaverick]

That clip looks like Nadal is brushing up the back of the ball in a crescent moon shape versus using the windshield wiper. Would you agree? If so, why is he using that stroke at that time and other times he uses the windshield wiper stroke?

[johnyandell]

It's both! Take the movie back 3-4 frames before contact. Watch his forearm. I talk about this in detail in the Hand and Arm Rotation article. You may want to review that.

The forearm is turning over--looking at the forearm is just another way to watch this rotation. Or look at where the tip of the racket is pointing. There are times when he finishes on his right side where the wiper appears more dramatic but the motion is there.

I don't think we can say exactly "why". I'm sure Nadal doesn't think "Oh I'll brush this one and wiper that one!"

One of the next steps in our work is to corelate this better with shot trajectory. Again, it's not either or! You need to feel the motions independently but use them together at times--if you have an extreme grip (and you have my condolences if that's the case...) you have to rotate to some extent on every ball.

Players feel what they want the ball to--and feel what they need to do to make the ball obey.