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[ochi]

Tsonga's simple strokes go wrong

What happened to Jo-Wilfried Tsonga's strokes in the Aussie final? How could such fine, simple, seemingly fool-proof techniques fail him?

[johnyandell]

I wouldn't say fail. If you haven't played much intense competitive tennis it may seem like a mystery. Actually he played much better in his first grand slam final than many players. He'll do better next time. Winning in that situation is not about technique.

[uspta4201423750]

Hey John, I made that change in my backhand that has worked great for me and realized that when I told you about it, I had forgotten the article about the 4 variations to some extent. What I actually did was converted my bent right arm on the take back to a straight arm—not at contact.

Correct me if I’m wrong but that seems to make a huge difference. Are there 4 possibly different variations of take back arms or more? It would make a good article! Roddick’s straight/straight take back seems to be the weakest out there despite his superior athleticism and skill with the serve and forehand. On the take back my right is now straight and my left is bent.

The straightening of the right seems to disable it and gives my left arm more control. It now feels more like another (lefty) forehand rather than 2 arms formerly bent and both fighting for control. The contact point for me is definitely bent/bent because I always try to windshield wiper over the ball. It seems that if the ball is either close to your body or you’re windshield wipering, that you’re forced to go bent/bent. The straight left arm at contact seems to be reserved for the Lansdorp left arm dominant, flat, penetrating shot that Davenport, Novak, Maria and most on the tour hit.

The straight right arm at contact seems to be the right arm dominant, flat, penetrating shot. What do you think? Oh, I also wondered if you ever thought of an article that examines other differences in strokes like take backs, like the higher (Donald Young) or more conservative (Lansdorp). or the loop verses straight back or Nalbandian/Safin style where the backhand racquet head dips first and then pops up.

P.S. I’m really enjoying my new Philipousis serve that I learned from the Goldstein articles; I have real problems with a frozen shoulder, but that trick gives me momentum to fight through the stiffness.


Thanks for taking the time to consider my thoughts; I definitely appreciate it! Harry Kingsley

[julian]

Gonzales

John,


Thank you for the reply to my question, it's great when someone responsible for the site actually replies to questions that you have as a member. It shows that you actually care about those subscribing and that it's not just about the money like it is at a another not to be mentioned site


I have a couple of questions some of which you might not be able to answer until the next issue of tennisplayer is available.

#1 Does federer use an educated use of the wrist on his forehand? If so does it actually add ball speed to his forehand?

#2 Any chance videos of Fernando Gonzalez will be available in the next few months on this site? I'm very interested in seeing his forehand frame by frame and I want to analyze his follow through. He seems to consistantly have one of the lowest forehand follow throughs in the game.

#3 I think a cool thing to do would be to get video of Donald Young and five years from now film him again to compare any technical changes in his game.

#4 Do you work at all with the USTA high performance program? If so do you provide them with video work and analysis for junior players?

#5 It's my belief that Tour coaches or USTA coaches are teaching this low forehand follow through to top junior players such as Donald Young and other players that I won't mention. Do you think this is the right thing to do? It seems as though it's being taught in a way where they don't reach the universal finish position. Do you think this is just an evolution in the technique or just a better way to hit the forehand?

#6 As a teaching pro I've been teaching this low follow through position as well as the traditional, and reverse forehand finishes. I notice that some coaches are teaching the low follow through without signifcant lift of the ball, is this incorrect? Would this technique work if you started under the ball enough? As a general rule I try to teach the universal position on the forehand besides shortballs and inside out forehands. I just hope I'm doing the right thing and helping my students as much as possible.

#7 Any chance you guys can get access to the tornado cam used at Wimbledon and the US Open last year? I have some of the Wimbledon clips saved on my computer and the 500fps and 1000fps clips are amazing. You can see literally everything in excellent detail.

Thank you for reading and responding to any of these questions.


JayFro

you may click

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/fernando_gonzales/fernando_gonzales_strokecat.html

and

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/high_speed/High_Speed.html?FernandoGonzalezFH.mov

[johnyandell]

Harry,

Do me a favor and post in smaller paragraphs like the way I broke up your post above ok? Impossible to read otherwise.

To me the variations in the take back should be irrelevant--so long as they end up delivering the racket to the right spot at the start of the forward swing. Impossible for me to say what effect that might be having in your case without some video.

I think there are a few confusions in your other statements, and I would agree you might want to read the article more carefully before posting comments.

You say:
"The straight left arm at contact seems to be reserved for the Lansdorp left arm dominant, flat, penetrating shot that Davenport, Novak, Maria and most on the tour hit. "

Lansdorp teaches straight/straight that but all of the others you mention are actually bent/bent. Not sure either that straight left arm is left arm dominant either. That one might be more balanced.

I'd also be careful about making generalizations about type of ball based on hitting arms. You see all the variations produce all the shot types.

There is an article on the two-handed backswings that goes into more detail about your questions in the Advanced Tennis section.

John

[uspta4201423750]

Hey John,

I read the backswing article; it was a real eye-opener, especially since I've been tinkering with my own. I wonder though, despite how well these players hit their backhands without a forehand style high hands loop, wouldn't that be the ideal way to hit it with the intention of hitting your backhand as powerfully and consistently as your forehand? I suppose the lower hands (as Lansdorp explained in his article) for the backhand help because most people are not as coordinated on that side of the body, but for someone who is ambidexterous, why not hit like you have 2 forehands with 2 high hands loops?
Thanks, Harry Kingsley

[johnyandell]

Harry,

You could be right, but I have to think these players will intuitively figure out how to max out their strokes without any theory from people like me. The loop does not, by the way, make the difference in racket head speed--even on the forehand.

So I think there are other reasons--can't say I know what they are for certainty--but if there was an advantage you'd probably see them all doing it. Somehow on the two-hander the loop just looks awkward-even Hantuchova's doesn't look that great to me.

John Yandell

[brett701]

John,

Awesome site, i wonder if the players at the tenniswarehouse forum know about your site? You might get some more business.

Anyways. Ive played d2 college tennis and i teach tennis now for a living. I am considering changing my forehand grip. it is a full western grip. ive always wanted it to be semi western more like federer and agassis. However, ive been experimenting and i am getting my footwork, grips and backswings confused. It just takes one of those to throw off my new forehand or my old one.

Is this a wise idea to switch if ive been playing with it for so long?

I just want the variation of hitting a flatter ball like federer as well as spin.


Also my grips seem to change very often while playing....pending on the height of the ball. its more like the palm of my hand shifts more than anything.

Basically everything is out of wack and im getting frustrated. Any direction would be nice.

[johnyandell]

Thanks for the good words. Think we have a lot of support at TW. I post there sometimes and there seems to be a wide awareness of the site. Plug it though!

On the forehand--have you got a clip? Until I see video of the stroke I can't really say anything with the promise of intelligence...

[brett701]

Thanks for the good words. Think we have a lot of support at TW. I post there sometimes and there seems to be a wide awareness of the site. Plug it though!

On the forehand--have you got a clip? Until I see video of the stroke I can't really say anything with the promise of intelligence...

thats what i was assuming... ill see what i can get this next week. I'll plug the best i can

[matchpoint7]

Hey John,

Was just wondering how you justify the myth of the wrist articles you show - particularly when you talk about Roger Federer. You show a shot of him in the Roger Federer forehand article which claims his wrist is laid back 90 degrees or more due to his straight arm hitting style. This is geometrically impossible given he hits the ball so far beside him (have a look at his forehand front on - he gives himself more space than any other player) This means his wrist is going to be on a shallower angle than someone who hits with the traditional triple bend.

The other thing is the rotational acceleration around the wrist on the same plane as the swing path (not the pronation of the arm) is faster than that of the arm coming through which would indicate use of the wrist.

Would be interested in what your response is.

Other than that it is a great site with a lot of great resources but I would like to see more geometry and physics come into it. It doesn't have to be specific maths but in a game where momentum comes into it, there is very little reference to it and the various ways momentum can be built.

Cheers

[johnyandell]

I don't think that you read what I am saying closely enough. My main point is that the players don't "snap" the wrist forward as a muscle action thru contact. Which is a widely advocated teaching point that I think is counterproductive.

The biomech studies Brian Gordon has done show that the wrist motion is a minor contributor to racket speed.

The amount of lay back can vary, it's not always 90 degrees at contact but if you look closely at the footage the wrist is laid back before during and after contact to some extent--lesser or greater. It's the same for Roger and there are plenty of examples of him around 90 degrees--and many where it is less.

So in some cases the wrist moves forward in the forward swing--others it doesn't, some it's actually more laid back after contact.
You see some netural wrist positions at contact but those are the small minority. The role of the wrist in my view is something like a passive hinge on the forehand.

[uspta4201423750]

Hey John,

My soon to be 7 year old Cannon is playing really well, playing and winning full court tennis matches against 9-13 year old kids in his ladder league. He is signed up to play a 10 and under level 3 in April and an 8 and under in early May at Little Mo in Mt. Kisco.

He does lessons with me, but I'm trying to come up with a summer plan for him.

What types of programs should I look to get him in?

What kids of opportunities are out there for kids his age/skill?

Is it time to bring him to an academy in Florida or elsewhere?

How can I find others his age for him to compete with and compare?

Thanks, Harry Kingsley

[johnyandell]

Harry,

I'm not really a developmental coach and I am the wrong person to try to answer those questions.

Start a thread and maybe Craig or Dave Halger or our other uspta guys can give you some input.

Regards,
John Yandell

[hyperwarrior]

Grip Structures in the Modern Forehand

Mr. Yandell,

I read your article and you explained that a Modified Eastern is a 3 1/2 / 3 and a Mild Semi-Western is a 4/3 while using the index knuckle and the heel pad.

I was wondering if it's possible to have a grip that is in between the Modified Eastern and the Mild Semi-Western like a 3 1/2 / 3 1/2 grip?

Thank you,

Albert