Have a Question for Me?

[stotty]

Are you looking for that article--or wanting to write it or???

God I love serve and volley--tried to play it myself as much as was practical in match situations. The greatest sorrow in the current pro game to me is that it is apparently impossible to play--or at least to play and win...

Still possible at Wimbledon. It's just there is no one with the skills to do it...

[johnyandell]

Are you looking for that article--or wanting to write it or???

God I love serve and volley--tried to play it myself as much as was practical in match situations. The greatest sorrow in the current pro game to me is that it is apparently impossible to play--or at least to play and win...

[10splayer]

Hi John
If you would be so kind, would you mind having a look at this for an article topic.
Seamless integration of individual skills.
If you already have something along those lines, I apologise and must have missed it.
Basically, learning things in pieces is a logical but old fashioned way of
acquiring a new skill. Sometimes necesary, but there may be alternatives.
I learnt to drive on my father lap, doing just the steering, while he did pedals, gears etc. Later I assembled the other skills, and integrated them into a whole.
Its the integration process, the joining of the bits that seem to cause me the most grief.eg
I can serve, and I can volley. Yet serving and volleying seems much harder that the pieces.
I can serve, and I can ground stroke, yet transitioning to a baseline rally isn't always as easy as it should be.
anyway, let your subconscious digest that, and see if there is and article there.
Thanks
Ciao

[johnyandell]

Yeah and you missed the ones that got deleted...

Scientology is not a game and when it's marketing principles are applied aggressively to tennis, well, fights break out with right thinking people...

[jimlosaltos]

Treading on Theological grounds

... oscar wegner is not a geek. something much more negative.

Just searched and ended up on some extraordinaly-lenghty, detailed, tendentious Tenniswarehouse threads .... scary stuff. Didn't realize I had touched on theological grounds with such emotional import

It's just a game, folks !

Thanks, John.

Retreating to just go out and hit a few balls.

[johnyandell]

No look at the video--is the ball sliding down or the racket rising--doesn't matter--there isn't a tilt unless the initial hit is below center. Or the approach is at a tilt to start with.

As for the other question with poly you have to be smart enough to figure out what the poly can do and adjust string type/diameter/tension to make the benefit work for you. A lot of people don't have the feel/intuition/intelligence for that.

oscar wegner is not a geek. something much more negative.

[jimlosaltos]

slide

God Jim have you been listening to Oscar Wegner? Stop for your own safety...

I am only half joking.

As for the first question, I don't know about "deliberate" as that implies intentionality. But it is true that on some minority percentage of balls, the racket face is slightly closed. Still pictures won't really indicate this. If the hit is even slightly below center the top of the frame will tilt. This is what has given rise to the internet misperception about the normalcy of this.

Want to really know? Go and count in the high speed archive--look at every side view and report back.

Same thing on the off center hits. I looked at about 300 hundred forehands of Djok, Rafa, and Roger. Guess what? All three hit about 1/3 on the center line, about 1/3 above, and about 1/3 below. Rafa was no different than the other two--except his missed the centerline slightly more--you guessed it--the misses were equally divided above and below...

Really the idea that at the speed of the professional game players could consciously decide to consistently hit the ball one inch below center with a 15 degree tilt or whatever is preposterous.

Dont know Oscar, but sounds like a man after my own geeky heart <g>.

Yes, I saw your piece on where the big three struck the ball; very interesting. Actually, it fits with my point / question.

The A) the racket head tilts closed when the ball is hit below center, B) As shown in the Fed pic, I'm saying that with co-poly strings a dead on-center hit will do the same because the ball slides down well below center. By your count then 2/3 of the time the pros' rackets will close before the ball departs meaning whether they intend to or not that the racket face is partially closed while hitting the ball, and goes up the back of the ball at an angle on most of their hits. May not start out that way, but ends up there.

Makes sense or not?

Tangentially, this also relates to the higher launch angle for co-poly strings -- one reason for the paradox that people trying to switch from gut to co-poly get frustrated because everything seems to go long, even though it supposedly has more spin ... but that's for another post

[johnyandell]

God Jim have you been listening to Oscar Wegner? Stop for your own safety...

I am only half joking.

As for the first question, I don't know about "deliberate" as that implies intentionality. But it is true that on some minority percentage of balls, the racket face is slightly closed. Still pictures won't really indicate this. If the hit is even slightly below center the top of the frame will tilt. This is what has given rise to the internet misperception about the normalcy of this.

Want to really know? Go and count in the high speed archive--look at every side view and report back.

Same thing on the off center hits. I looked at about 300 hundred forehands of Djok, Rafa, and Roger. Guess what? All three hit about 1/3 on the center line, about 1/3 above, and about 1/3 below. Rafa was no different than the other two--except his missed the centerline slightly more--you guessed it--the misses were equally divided above and below...

Really the idea that at the speed of the professional game players could consciously decide to consistently hit the ball one inch below center with a 15 degree tilt or whatever is preposterous.

[jimlosaltos]

Racket Flat, or Close a Tad?

John,

I was engaged in one of the perennial discussions, this on whether pros ever deliberately close the racket face on impact, when I wondered how/if the move to co-poly strings affected that. Specifically, even a hit on the sweet spot, slides down well below impact, which rapidly twists the racket-faced closed. See pic.

Tangentially, do pros ever deliberately hit the ball below center to impart topspin? Nadal, in particular, seems to repeatedly end up with his racket face pointing straight toward the ground a split second after impact.

Two pics of Fed, in the first you can see how the ball has slid down perhaps 3 inches.

Thanks for any input ! / jim


FedFhdExtendAO11tennisLoop by james.fawcette, on Flickr

and


FedFhdAO11ballcompress by james.fawcette, on Flickr

[johnyandell]

Yep eventually for sure. He needs to win a few matches and get on the stadium courts when we are filming first though...

[hyperwarrior]

John,

Do you plan to have more footage videos on Grigor Dimitrov in the future? I'll like to study him from different angles. I'm always curious to see subtle differences between him and Roger.

[johnyandell]

Sean,

An interesting question! There is a definite difference and the Sampras/Fed position is more common and in my view simple to achieve. BUT look at Raonic:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1857&highlight=interactive+forum+raonic

His position is more similar to Maria!

What all four players share however is that deep, full, pro drop along the right side with massive external arm rotation.

If you make that position does it matter? I don't have a definite answer for that question. But I do know it's questionable that this shape directly effects racket speed--this is because the real acceleration happens in a 1/10 of a second after the drop. At the "power position" his racket is traveling at 10mph. It gains 20mph between there and the drop, but then goes from 30mph to 90mph from the drop to the contact--again in 1/10th of a second.

See this article which actually measures it in Pete's motion:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/sampras_serve/sampras_serve_racket_head_speed/sampras_serve_racket_head_speed.html

Of course there could be something along the lines of the ssc discoveries Brian Gordon made on the forehand that I am missing.

I'm sure others here have opinions so chime in if you will.

John

[seano10s]

Serving Question - Hand position in &quot;Loaded position&quot;

John -

Wanted to get you thoughts (+ & -) on the racquet-hand position when in the "loaded position" before the racquet drop. This isn't a fair comparison, in terms of quality of serves, but if you look at Maria Sharapova's serve when she is in the "loaded position" her racquet face is parallel to the baseline. Compare that to Federer or Sampras, their racquet face is pointed to the right-side fence or the edge of the racquet is perpendicular to the baseline. What are the possible benefits and/or pitfalls to having the racquet face parallel to the baseline (Sharapova), when in the "loaded position"?

Sean O

[johnyandell]

Greg,

It seems like a potentially interesting event. Yeah sort of a bricks and mortar Tennisplayer. I think the facility is fully set for this year. Hopefully PJ gets sufficient attendance to do it in the future!

John

[tntenniswhiz]

US Tennis Congress

John,

I just saw that you are going to be one of the faculty members at the Oct. U.S. Congress educational session for adult recreational players. I've only just learned about this effort from the flyer sent to me by Emelio Sanchez Vicario and am very intrigued by the philosophy behind it's creation. As one who is endeavoring to bring tennis instruction to the streets, so to speak, would you say this is also trying to accomplish that in a different way? Another way of putting it, to overcome the current apathy in teaching pros staying current in their education and therefore providing poor instruction???

As many of the faculty members are those who I consider mentors, I'd love to somehow participate in this type of event that I would further enhance how I'm providing instruction to my area. Any suggestions and thoughts on both parts? (just don't want you to skip over my first question..lol)