Have a Question for Me?

[johnyandell]

Ralph,

Personally I don't think so--you will probably get the torso too far ahead. For me what I am looking at is the torso at the turn, the start of the forward swing, and the finish. If those points are right the dots should connect.

if you emphasize simply swinging faster with the hand and racket the body should make the adjustment assuming the above positions are in place.

[jimlosaltos]

Sidespin matter much?

John,

If you already covered this and I missed it, my apologies.

Suggestion: I haven't seen much discussion of sidespin and its effect on groundstrokes from the top pros. I know you go into detail are the top- and sidespin-components of Sampras' serve.

I was inspired to ask this by a quote from, of all people, Larry Ellison. He hit with Rafael Nadal for an hour-and-a-half (it is good to be a billionaire <g>) and what he primarily noted was how it was hard to tell which way Rafa's ball would bounce.

I wonder if that plays a major role in the mishits he gets off his high-bouncing forehands.

I've only heard sidespin discussed in TV analysis in terms of bending a down-the-line shot to get it in. And, in slice backhands, where pros effectively re-set rallies by hitting low sidespin-slice down the line to elicit a cross-court.

Thoughts?

Thank you.
.

[johnyandell]

Great, great question. And wish I had a detailed analysis.

The work we did on the serve spin components was much easier due to the fact the players stand basically in one place and the contact point is also virtually identical.

Once we get out there into the land of groundstroke exchanges...well let's just say the methodology is not in place to make accurate distinctions in the spin components--although we hope to develop it...

Having said that I am certain that Larry was more or less right--and he isn't the first person to say it. Lansdorp did a few years ago. The reverse finishes by Nadal are causing major sidespin so the ball jumps away from a right handers backhand.

Since in all the swings the racket is moving across the line of the shot, sidespin has to be a factor--just look at the way slice bounces, or drop shots.

The wiper action with the face turning over has got to generate sidespin on the groundies as well.

Wish I could say more with confidence.

[jimlosaltos]

Thanks

Wish I could say more with confidence.

Thanks for responding.

At least you confirmed that I'm not crazy. Well, here anyway.

Look forward to when you figure out how to do this.

[jimlosaltos]

Remembered stumphges' post last year

Having said that I am certain that Larry was more or less right--and he isn't the first person to say it. Lansdorp did a few years ago. The reverse finishes by Nadal are causing major sidespin so the ball jumps away from a right handers backhand.

.

John, just remembered my dialog with stumphges on his series a ways back.

Excerpt from what he wrote: "And I don't think it's just on serve that this happens. Both Nadal and Federer get significant sidespin/spiralspin on their topspin forehands, especially on balls hit below the hips and balls hit above the shoulder. You can see on John's high speed footage that on low balls these guys are hitting up and across the ball in such a way that they put outside-in spin on it. And on high balls they put inside-out spin on it.

Nate Ferguson told me that Roger's gut mains rarely get stuck out of line. But that the Alu Power Rough crosses will get stuck up from hitting inside-out forehands. If you think about Fed's "fall-away" inside out forehand, what Bailey calls a lateral transfer, if he's hitting it at shoulder height or above his racquet is coming across the ball from outside to inside. His cross strings would be hitting the ball and getting pushed "up" towards the tip of the frame. If they snapped back in time they would put extra sidespin and/or spiralspin on the ball (the proportion of each being a function of what location on the ball is struck).

But we know from Lindsey's friction experiments that copoly doesn't slide on gut as well as gut slides on copoly. So Fed's gut mains - sliding on copoly crosses - rarely get stuck out of place, even though he's hitting topspin groundies continuously. But his copoly crosses, when stretched in the same way mains usually are on these shots where he is coming across the ball as much as over it, don't snap back as well because of the greater friction encountered by copoly trying to slide on gut "rails".

As long as his copoly crosses snap back into line he'd be getting maximum sidespin on these types of shots. But if they are getting stuck out of place he'd be losing spin. Nadal's RPM Blast is probably better for sidespin and spiralspin because the mains and crosses are the same material, so sliding is equal in both directions. Maybe more importantly, he gets a consistent response on these shots because the strings always come back into line, so on the next shot they are ready to slide and snapback again. Federer might hit one sick sidespin forehand, and then the next might not bend as much because his strings have got stuck."

[johnyandell]

Yes it is all very complex and you could be exactly right. Would be very interesting to measure these two factors and hopefully we will eventually be able to. Probably requires 2 camera filming though and some type of measurement software analysis to breakout the components.

[jryle1]

Hey John,

I was reading Brian Gordon's articles on the serve and I was wondering if you could (or maybe Brian) could clarify what is meant by "Wrist flexion"?

Is this the movement of the wrist from a laid back position to a neutral position at contact or is it downward at contact or what is meant by it?

Sorry for the confusion.

Jono.

[johnyandell]

Laid back to neutral.

[jryle1]

Thanks for that.

[jimlosaltos]

Igor Andreev

John,

Have you ever measured the top spin on Igor Andreev's forehand?

I searched here but didn't find it. Sorry if I just missed it.

I know you can't do metrics on everybody. The reason I bring Andreev up is that there are recurring discussions over several years that Andreev hits with more topspin than Nadal. I generally ignored the online threads until I heard the announcer say yesterday, during broadcast of his live match, that Marcos Baghdatis said that also.

Unfortunately, for trying to video him now, Andreev is well past his peak (down to 100 after reaching 18, pushing Fed at USO etc.).

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Igor-Andreev.aspx

Thoughts? // jim

[johnyandell]

Haven't filmed him. Could be true but the relevance is of limited interest (to me anyway)...

Except maybe to show that it takes a lot more than topspin to be Rafael Nadal.

[jimlosaltos]

&lt;g&gt;

Haven't filmed him. Could be true but the relevance is of limited interest (to me anyway)...

Except maybe to show that it takes a lot more than topspin to be Rafael Nadal.

That's a great line , John. A great headline, actually.

And a perfect reason to do this. If, indeed, you find someone less successful than Rafa, that hits with more topspin that would be buzz-worthy.

[johnyandell]

Yeah it would be interesting.

[ralph]

Speed of Racquet Drop

In the past I did not emphsize the speed of my racquet drop from the trophy position. I only emphasized accelerating out of drop. Some where I came across the idea of hitting a harder serve based on how quickly one gets "in and out of the drop". Any thoughts on this idea would be appreciated.

Ralph

[johnyandell]

That quote comes from Rick Macci in one of Roddick serve articles in Advanced Tennis.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/new_serving_model/new_serving_model_part1/new_serving_model_part1.html

That abbreviated motion reduces the time to the drop. Not sure that's the way for everyone to go. The more you try to make your racket go fast, the more you may slow it down. it also takes extreme shoulder flexbility...

My idea for you is to let your arm relax as much as possible as it drops--assuming you have your positions correct. It's similar on the upswing. It has to be relaxed like a throw--even if the motion isn't exactly the same.