Have a Question for Me?

[johnyandell]

Well, depends on what you mean by finish. I think the butt at the net is a mistake because that is the wrap phase which happens naturally. You have to distinguish between how far outward and upward the racket travels, and what happens afterwards. You might want to check out the Myth of the Wrap article in the advanced tennis section.

[jryle1]

Thanks very much John. That clears things up a lot. I have indeed read that article before and I most certainly will read it again. It's about the fact that the wrap of any type is an effect of the cause of racket acceleration and deceleration is it? But that a kind of universal, well, not universal but a good checkpoint for the actual finish is hand at left eye level with good spacing. For a junior player anyway this would be a good checkpoint I guess...especially 8-9 year olds. They are definitely focusing on the wrap, with your permission I will try to explain this to the two and just use the article as an example to show them once off. If that's ok with you?

Another question that always bugs me and I know I've asked it before but I want to add to it.

Spin on the modern forehand; What generates topspin? Is it a mixture of the racket face combined with hand and arm rotation? Is it primarily hand and arm rotation or is it the path of the racket? I know we can't really tell my the finish anymore seeing as Djokovic is hitting as much spin and Federer with a classic finish. My further addition is - Is there any way of proving which? Any technology Brian Gordon may use which might help to establish on a qualitative note what might be going on?

Thanks again, I'm very eager to learn as you can tell!

Jono.

[johnyandell]

Speed of the racket and path of the racket is the simple answer as to what creates spin. It's an interesting question what percentage the wiper might add on top of the brush. 20% more?
100% more when you wish?

I think in a way though it's an irrelevant question. If you are coming through the ball as fast as you are capable with a vertical finish, you get a certain spin level. Then if you add wiper and increase wiper speed you get certain additional amounts. Within your abilities you will then be generating the range of possible spins.

[bman]

I will play devil's advocate to John for a minute. I understand what John is saying about the buttcap and how that doesn't necessarily insure a proper stroke pattern. However, for me as someone who has taught a lot of low level tennis, the problem that kids often have is that they stop the racket right at contact. So the buttcap thing at least insures that they keep the racket moving through contact, which is a step in the right direction. The best intermediate step, I think, it to have them catch the racket with the left hand way out in front of their body, almost as if they are pointing a rifle. Then eventually tell them they can relax the stroke at the end which will result in the racket coming over or across the shoulder.

[johnyandell]

Although I don't use the catch thing, I agree with the idea. I teach players to create an image of the hand, arm and racket at maximum extension--wirst at about eye level, hand across the body at the edge of the opposite shoulder, 2 feet or so of spacing between the hand and the torso. They then swing to that image. If they do, the rest usually happens.

[don_budge]

bman + johnyandell = my model

Although I don't use the catch thing, I agree with the idea. I teach players to create an image of the hand, arm and racket at maximum extension--wrist at about eye level, hand across the body at the edge of the opposite shoulder, 2 feet or so of spacing between the hand and the torso. They then swing to that image. If they do, the rest usually happens.

Nice image...I like that. Wrist at eye level, hand across the body at the edge of the opposite shoulder, swing to that image. I like using the catch with it. Thanks guys!

The key is the phrase..."swing to that image". This will make all of the sense in the world to any beginner or even a child. It looks precisely like Richard Gonzales on page 35 in his book, "Tennis" by Pancho Gonzales.

Handleden i ögonhöjd, handen över kroppen vid kanten av motsatt axel, sving till den bilden.

It's a mouthful in Swedish but I can try. Sving till den bilden!

[johnyandell]

It'll work with a catch for sure.

With all technical positions, it's great to have players create a physical model with the checkpoints, then close their eyes, visualize the image of the position.

The image allows them to convey precise technical info to their bodies without words--something we all know doesn't work during actual play.

[don_budge]

Swinging to the image...

It'll work with a catch for sure.

With all technical positions, it's great to have players create a physical model with the checkpoints, then close their eyes, visualize the image of the position.

The image allows them to convey precise technical info to their bodies without words--something we all know doesn't work during actual play.

Closed eyes or eyes wide shut...promoting models with checkpoints, visualizing and conveying precise technical information, the best intermediate step...good stuff. There was a thread august 19 started by were titled "Catching racket". bman added number five to my first four...coupled with your visualize exercise sort of wraps the thing up for me. The beauty of it is the simplicity...the kids will be able to grasp it. The racquet and the concept, that is. I am very anxious to implement this little pearl into my forehand model. In fact, swinging to the image has a lot of further implications with the rest of the strokes, doesn't it?

Good work, Brothers!

From the "Catching Racquet" thread:

For me it (catching the racquet) makes sense for a number of reasons...

1 I don't like the picture of little kids following through wildly around their necks and the wiper is out of the question at that age. I think it prevents them from wildly spinning out of their forehands. This promotes balance.

2 It begins to get the left hand and therefore the left side of the body involved with the motion of the swing. Kids should learn to be dexterous with their left side. It won't hurt when it comes time to learn the service toss.

3 It looks good and it seems to give a sense of control to their swing. Very early on I am emphasizing control as opposed to emphasizing power. Early on I am teaching my kids to hit the ball relatively flat without excessive spin and I think this method promotes this by controlling the follow through.

4 It promotes returning to ready position quickly by getting both hands on the racquet and getting ready for the next shot.

bman added...

5 And if you have them catch the racket fairly high it teaches them to lift through the stroke.

This swinging to the image concept is a golf exercise promoting follow through technique that I have toyed with in the past. How stupid of me to of neglected it in my tennis teachings. But in my own defense...I play tennis left handed and golf right handed which is a possible reason for my missing the connection. Perhaps this is a drawback from using too much of both sides of the brain...lost in the internal conversation. Oh well, live and learn.

[johnyandell]

Yes it basically applies across the strokes--myself that's how I try to convey all technical information--try to get the player thinking in images.

Quote John McEnroe: "Sometimes I'll see the shot flash across my mind's eye and then I'll hit it."

Billie Jean King told me that once she realized she was spontaneously doing this, she ritualized it and used images for everything she did on court.

[don_budge]

2 Great Reasons...

Yes it basically applies across the strokes--myself that's how I try to convey all technical information--try to get the player thinking in images.

Quote John McEnroe: "Sometimes I'll see the shot flash across my mind's eye and then I'll hit it."

Billie Jean King told me that once she realized she was spontaneously doing this, she ritualized it and used images for everything she did on court.

There's two great reasons to back up your imaging process theory with regard to learning tennis strokes. Two of my all time favorites...all time brilliant tacticians of all court tennis. These two used every little, tiny bit of the tennis court.

I am wondering if it would be possible to have some large mirrors installed somewhere in our club...to enhance the imaging process.

With regard to your follow through image...wrist at approximately eye level, hand swinging to the edge of opposite shoulder...I saw this youtube clip of Mecir vs. McEnroe. Mecir's forehand mirrors exactly your description...and it's a beauty! At one point he even follows through over the right side of his head ala "Nadal" style. Further demonstrating there is nothing new under the sun...sorry bottle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=Qlb5Py25DPM

It would be tough to find better footwork than these two...by the way, does it appear that Mecir's feet are a bit "oversized"?

[fastdunn]

Hi,
I am unable to reach tennisplayer.net via your email, or admin, or 415-885-6959. Let me know how I should contact tennisplayer.net.
Thanks.

[johnyandell]

That's odd. All are working! But you can call me directly on my cell 415-336-9439.

[fastdunn]

The e-mail : jyandell@mail.tennisplayer.net does not seem to work.
This address was set to "Reply To" of recent news letter I've got.

The "admin" at tennisplayer.net seem to work but did not get any reply
from it.

Thanks.

[johnyandell]

Reply to takes you off the email list as it explains. The other one works fine--just got your email, so no worries.

[julian1]

How to delete my duplicate thread?

Dear Sir,
please let me know where is an option to delete MY OWN thread/duplicate
Thank you