Have a Question for Me?

[stotty]

Thanks John. I will shoot some clips and do a side-by-side with Zverev. I have had two players in the past who use the vertical take back and they are best two-handers I've ever had! When it works it really works. Both players had timing issues early on but eventually came through them.

[johnyandell]

Hard to say without video. Where is everything at the bounce of the ball? Is he slow starting the turn? I favor the compact take back but the other can work depending on the timing of what is where when...

Here is Zverev. Where is your guy's racket in relation to the full shoulder turn? The step to the ball? Zeverv's motion is continuous. Your guy?

https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/forum/tennisplayer/62580-interactive-forum-february-2017-alexander-zverev-two-handed-backhand

[stotty]

John

I would appreciate your opinion on something:

I have a talented 11-year-old I am coaching. He uses a two-hander and has the racket head stuck up close to vertical during the backswing phase (think Zverev, Bruguera). It's natural to him and I have let him continue with until this point. The problem is he has timing issues at the contact point and often gets caught late even on relatively slow balls. I am contemplating converting him to an Agassi style take back as he may find the timing easier. He's young enough and things aren't too baked in yet.

What are your thoughts on the vertical take back and would you encourage change even though the mechanics look pretty good...but timing is a persistent problem?

[johnyandell]

Good shot!

[jimlosaltos]

Verdasco to me uses a pistol type grip, as do most pro players. To me, Tsitsipas and Rublev use more of a closed fist grip, which changes the heel position orientation. Try it for yourself, put your index knuckle on bevel 4, with a pistol type grip and also with a closed fist grip. With a pistol, wirh the index knuckle on bevel 4, the heel also falls on bevel 4. With a closed fist, with the index knuckle on bevel 4, the heel falls more on bevel 3.

Other angle

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[stroke]

Verdasco to me uses a pistol type grip, as do most pro players. To me, Tsitsipas and Rublev use more of a closed fist grip, which changes the heel position orientation. Try it for yourself, put your index knuckle on bevel 4, with a pistol type grip and also with a closed fist grip. With a pistol, wirh the index knuckle on bevel 4, the heel also falls on bevel 4. With a closed fist, with the index knuckle on bevel 4, the heel falls more on bevel 3.

[jimlosaltos]

Since there's interest in grips, here are links (below) to some TPN tour portraits that collected them.
It's been a long time, so forgive my now outdated photography.

And here's a recent one of Fernando Verdasco with another very good forehand.
I'm cross-posting this, which I just this for a request in the December Tour Portrait thread.

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Forehands:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tourportraits/jim_fawcette/forehand_grips/

Backhands:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tourportraits/jim_fawcette/backhand_grips

Volleys

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tourportraits/jim_fawcette/serve_volley_grips

Gulbis, Kei two handed grips

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/tourportraits/jim_fawcette/backhand_grips_2

[stroke]

stroke, now I have adapted his grip his forehand has to take on a Potro/Stef look about it anyway...with the racket travelling on edge. That was bound to happen going from an extreme grip to a more moderate one. It's a bit of a process but it's working. At the moment he is just playing with me so the coaching environment is completely closed.

Thanks for your input. I will clog up John's thread no longer. I look forward to the Aussie Open thread.

Interestingly, I read a story one time where Fed was quoted as saying if he were teaching someone the forehand, he would use Del Po as the model. He cited the simplicity of his technique. To me as I said earlier, Tsitsipas and Rublev, who I think have very similar grips and technique on the forehand, just have a more compact(they prepare with their elbow and the tip of the racquet lower than Del Po) Del Po forehand.

[stotty]

Stotty, you may want to toy with that Tsitsipas/Rublev grip, which seems to give them a compact Del Po type forehand. It looks like such a simple motion kind of bypassing the whole pat the dog thing, keeping the strings of the more open.

Possible!

stroke, now I have adapted his grip his forehand has to take on a Potro/Stef look about it anyway...with the racket travelling on edge. That was bound to happen going from an extreme grip to a more moderate one. It's a bit of a process but it's working. At the moment he is just playing with me so the coaching environment is completely closed.

Thanks for your input. I will clog up John's thread no longer. I look forward to the Aussie Open thread.

[johnyandell]

Possible!

[stroke]

Stotty, you may want to toy with that Tsitsipas/Rublev grip, which seems to give them a compact Del Po type forehand. It looks like such a simple motion kind of bypassing the whole pat the dog thing, keeping the strings of the more open.

[stotty]

That's a great question. I am thinking Roger is heel pad on 3.5 or so, and his index knuckle maybe on the 3. Tsitsipas seems to be heel pad on bevel 3 and index knuckle on 4. There are just so many slight variations on the forehand grip. I would say Roger is an extreme eastern grip, and Tsitsipas is a mild semi western. Sidenote, Rublev seems to use the same grip as Tsitsipas.

I agree with Stroke about Roger!

We are talking forehand groundstroke right?

Thanks both of you. Yes, the forehand groundstroke of course.

I am coaching a 12-year-old boy at the moment with an Hawaiian grip (ridiculously extreme) on his forehand. I have opted for a 3/3 to start with to get him well away from his original grip. I may modify it slightly further round to 3.5 down the line. Making an extreme adjustment from Hawaiian to a 3/3 and then allowing a leeway towards 4 works well as they suddenly find the grip more manageable.

I am currently working with him for 35 minutes a day to make this grip change, hitting roughly 500 balls a session. I hope to get it operational for a tournament by the end of the month.

He's a Federer and Verdasco fan so I have been checking out those grips for him. There's nothing quite like a hero to inspire a child to bite the bullet when making a significant change. And what super forehands for a talented child to emulate.

[johnyandell]

We are talking forehand groundstroke right?

[johnyandell]

I agree with Stroke about Roger!

[stroke]

Roger's Forehand Grip

John, is Roger's heel pad on bevel 3 or 4...or somewhere between? It can be hard to tell looking at videos and photos, and he seems to moderate his grip when returning serve, using a waiting grip that seems very conservative.

That's a great question. I am thinking Roger is heel pad on 3.5 or so, and his index knuckle maybe on the 3. Tsitsipas seems to be heel pad on bevel 3 and index knuckle on 4. There are just so many slight variations on the forehand grip. I would say Roger is an extreme eastern grip, and Tsitsipas is a mild semi western. Sidenote, Rublev seems to use the same grip as Tsitsipas.