Have a Question for Me?

[johnyandell]

Vin's info is more detailed than anything I have. Are you in med school at night Vin? Vic always talked about Tony Roche ruining his shoulder. I guess I'm not sure what the answer is, except to say if the whole thing is relaxed with the contact still in front, my instincts are it's fine. One thing for sure, that's the way the top players are going to continue to serve for the foreseeable future...

[gzhpcu]

Hmmm...think you might be right... looked at Sampras... he really leans to the left when serving, with his left shoulder much lower than his right shoulder... so, the compensation is to go forward, but leaning towards the left....

[vmiller]

What about his argument that to avoid rotor cuff injuries, it is better to throw the ball off to the right?

I would think that's based on the argument that letting the humerus (upper arm) get above the plane of the shoulders is more of a risk to the rotator cuff.

But if you look at most current players that hit further to the left, their upper arm is still in line with the shoulder plane at contact, or close to it. The difference is that the shoulders must be tilted more for the upper arm to stay in line. Take a look at Roddick.

So, if this is the case, internal rotation is going to occur at the same angle in relation to shoulder plane, which I think suggests that there wouldn't be much difference, if any, in the amount of stress to the rotator cuff.

If anyone could prove this wrong or add any further information, that would be great.

[gzhpcu]

more on the Braden video...

John,
From the Vic Braden video, I saw, Tanner did not seem to jump as high as they do nowadays. His racket trajectory after impact was predominantly extended way out in front, not so much inside-out towards the left (right for a righthander) as the top servers do today. It did seem like a very fast flat serve with just a bit of slice to me, as you say. Looking at Sampras, Federer, etc., after impact the racket moves off at an angle to the right. This gives more top and sidespin, but less blinding speed as in Tanner's case. The pros on Braden's video, seem to hit the ball at the edge of the body as you say, I think his message to throw the ball well in front is just to get more body lean (and thereby speed). What about his argument that to avoid rotor cuff injuries, it is better to throw the ball off to the right?

[johnyandell]

Phil,

Vic is a pioneer and much of what we know about the game we have learned from him. I consider him a friend. Some of the filming with Tanner et al is just great to watch. But I think there is pretty much a consensus in coaching that not only are we all not Roscoe Tanner, none of us are. Kevin Curren? Maybe he was Roscoe Tanner. (Vic I know doesn't agree with me to much on this point--and that's OK with both of us...)

No one ever measured the spin on Roscoe's ball. I wonder if it might be quite flat and what spin there was, I bet was primarily sidespin.

I've never seen a player, including some top 100 players I have personallly worked with who could hit with that toss. In the modern game the toss is going to be more to the left. That is what allows a topspin component. Not sure where Roscoe's toss was exactly front to back--but Pete, Roger, Andy--and all the rest--make contact just barely in front of the edge of the body. It's also going to be much higher.

So I really agree with the his view on the racket drop along the right side--he debunked the myth of the backscratch a long time ago--although amazingly it's still widely believed.

Like Vic, Cliff Drysdale also loves to criticize the high toss. But it can't be that bad if so many great players use it. The real issue there isn't height. It's timing.

All things being exactly equal a low toss won't be affected by wind as much, but the issue is mute if you can't get the racket thru and make the racket drop position Vic identifies. Pete beat Andre in one of those Open finals when the wind was about 50mph--so I just don't see that being much of an objection. The real reason the players toss high--to give themselves the interval they need to execute the full motion with a comfortable rhythm.

I also know Vic doesn't emphasize the knee bend too much, but I will disagree there as well. And the deeper down you go, naturally the more time it takes, requiring more toss height--at least if you want a smooth motion that feels really great as it unwinds into the ball... Yeah I can throw the ball out to right and in front and hit it real hard myself--the problem is it just isn't going to go in the box.

[gzhpcu]

Vic Braden's Video on the Serve

I have an old video on the serve by Vic Braden, which I find still one of the best videos around on the serve. The points I particularly like are: 1) keeping the face of the racket downwards during the wind-up, 2) the "scratching a friend's back" analogy and tossing the ball forward and a to the right for speed and low strain on the shoulder. The minimal height on the toss is perhaps still controversial (we aren't all Roscoe Tanners...), but still, I find, high ball tosses are disadvantageous.

What are your thoughts on this video? Any points you are not in agreement with? Thanks.

[johnyandell]

As mentioned just above, we plan to put james Blake up by the end of the year, including his forehand. Not prepared to say anything at present because I haven't looked at it closely--appears to be a fairly mild semi-western with a lot of arm rotation on a lot of the balls.

[johnyandell]

We had a chance to film Gasquet in Montreal. We need to film him again though to put him up in the Stroke Archives--usually we film at least 4 matches.

We also filmed him in high speed so some of that may make it into articles and also the high speed archive.

Blake we have. (Vin.) We'll put him up sometime before the end of the year. Great to see him back--we've been waiting and hoping that would happen.

So glad to hear about your experience with the site.

[vmiller]

Any chance of getting clips of Gasquet on here?

And Blake too?

[mhuddleston]

Any chance of getting clips of Gasquet on here? I'm in love with his backhand and would love to see some clips of it so I could study it.

I love this site! I get on here and just can't stop. Before I know it, hours have passed. Thanks for so much great info in one place.

[johnyandell]

Martin,

Not sure which article you are referring to. There are two Visual Tennis articles, both of which are there in full on the server. Have you got the URL and I can check into it.

John Yandell

[martin]

Visual Tennis

The article seems to end in mid stream? 'Let me start by...' - nothing follows. Where is page 2 or next article

[johnyandell]

Yeah I'd have to say that's a great place to start. The other factor goes beyond the technical. "Knowing" what to do and doing it aren't the same.

It's much tougher mentally to neturalize and try to stay in a point and fight than it is to try a big shot. Taking a swing and a miss is an easy out mentally. I don't mean that as a judgment. Some players simply do not have the temperment to counterpunch or defend, including some who have been at the very top of the game--and maybe they shouldn't try. I just got back from LA and watched Mark Philippoussis self-destruct in exactly the same way. But his game also got him to the Wimby final.

He only knows one way to play. Every player has to determine what will be his way or ways. Sure it's easy to say do this or that. And maybe your son will develop the ability to do what you want. The more confident a player is the more he is often willing to fight and hang in. Federer plays amazing defense. But a lot of this goes to style of play and personality type and in evaluating a player's progress it's a mistake to just base it on theory of what a coach thinks is appropriate. (Now myself, I love to through up a nice deep topspin moonball and have my opponent start the point all over again...)

[kenknight]

I'm sure John will come up with better advice, but 111112, you should try the article "Neutral Tennis" by Kerry Mitchell in the "Classic Lessons" section.

It's exactly about the same stuff you're looking for.

Your son should definitely not try to immediately hit a big offensive shot when the other player is in control of the point. Instead, he should aim for one or two shots to give him time to recover and position himself to get back on the offensive. So a deep slice or high, deep topspin ball down the middle would be a much better option.

[111112]

Hi John
>
>I have another question for you. My son is nationally ranked 15 y/o.
>He has trouble turning the tables on his opponent. That is when his
>opponent is in charge of the point and he is on defense, he wants to
>try and hit a offensive shot and turn the table on his opponent. Any
>drills or advice you have toward that situation that we could practice?
>
>