Have a Question for Me?

[jimlosaltos]

John,

When I was cobbling together the videos of Sabalenka's serve, posted in the TNP forum, my thoughts ran to other players that are "Kick challenged"

https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/forum/tennisplayer/100259-interactive-forum-april-2023-aryna-sabalenka-serve#post100296

As I was watching a replay on TV of Felix Auger Aliassime, Jim Courier (one of the best commentators IMHO) said, "Felix has no kick serve, which he needs here because Alcaraz is leaning toward his forehand" and later "There he tried there to go wide with a kicker but it went into the net". Holger Rune also appears to have no kick serve, constantly hitting slice, but he's very accurate with a flat, hard second serve. Ditto Paula Badosa, a good WTA server. I mentioned Sir Andy.

Question: Aside from us disparaging their early tennis coaches, why do so many high-level pros, players that are great athletes with tremendous hand-eye coordination, struggle to hit kick? If it was easy, they'd all have kickers. Any thoughts?


Thanks.

[johnyandell]

No idea.

[jimlosaltos]

No idea.

Well, that makes me feel better <g>.
Thanks anyway.

[johnyandell]

Yeah well...

I read an article recently from Pat Cash regarding serving and he was proposing that all serves should be attempted with the same motion (and toss i presume) but only changing the racket grip to alternate between flat, slice and kick. Do you see any merit in this?

[johnyandell]

I don't agree with Pat on that. If you look in my Teaching Methods article on the serve you can see that Fed for example changes these things by slightly different time in the start of the hand arm and racket rotation.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...nd_placements/

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/2nd_serve_spin_placement/

[doctorhl]

John,

When I was cobbling together the videos of Sabalenka's serve, posted in the TNP forum, my thoughts ran to other players that are "Kick challenged"

https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/forum/tennisplayer/100259-interactive-forum-april-2023-aryna-sabalenka-serve#post100296

As I was watching a replay on TV of Felix Auger Aliassime, Jim Courier (one of the best commentators IMHO) said, "Felix has no kick serve, which he needs here because Alcaraz is leaning toward his forehand" and later "There he tried there to go wide with a kicker but it went into the net". Holger Rune also appears to have no kick serve, constantly hitting slice, but he's very accurate with a flat, hard second serve. Ditto Paula Badosa, a good WTA server. I mentioned Sir Andy.

Question: Aside from us disparaging their early tennis coaches, why do so many high-level pros, players that are great athletes with tremendous hand-eye coordination, struggle to hit kick? If it was easy, they'd all have kickers. Any thoughts?


Thanks.

Besides knowledge base, could shoulder flexibility be a factor? I know there must be a pro tennis SPARQ or combine like database somewhere that has pro shoulder flexibility data among other fitness data(https://www.topendsports.com/testing...on-acuflex.htm).

[johnyandell]

Good question but not that I know of. If you look at the racket drop that gives some indication. But Fed for example, his drop was less than many players. Stay tuned for my take on Sabalenka's serve in the May issue. We're behind but it's coming...

[don_budge]

That's very odd the the page freezes. All those links from the thread even work on my phone when i try it and that's safari i'm using. Did you try accessing those links in Firefox or Chrome or Edge?

Eureka! Managed to switch browser to Firefox and everything works beautifully! There is a God. Thanks for your help jeffreycounts.

[johnyandell]

Jeff is it.

[jimlosaltos]

John, looking at photos of Alcaraz and Sinner we've published on TPN, makes me wonder about an issue you've covered on TPN before -- Bent vs Straight-Arm forehands.

Since this thread is for questions, I'll pretend this is the game show Jeopardy and format a question for you <g>

"What's your current thinking on Bent vs Straight-Arm forehands and do you have any thoughts on who has the better overall forehand, Jannik Sinner or Carlos Alcaraz"? I put images of the two players side by side for this post.

I re-read your series by Pat Cash (included links at end of this). Boiling it down, as I understand it, Pat says most pros hit with a bent-arm forehand and this is what most people should use since the margin for error is greater & one can adjust more at the last moment. But -- big BUT -- the biggest hitters, aka Fed, Delpo etc, have straight arm forehands, which require hitting the ball further in front, and great footwork to get in position in the narrow window for impact.

Also, I believe you said/wrote later something akin to "Most pros hit with both at one time or another." Sorry if I misrepresented that. Thanks in advance.

filedata/fetch?id=100706&d=1683657771&type=thumb
My photos of each from Indian Wells 2022, 2023 (c)jfawcette. Please click to enlarge.

Here are links for Pat's series, Part I and Part II, which is a bit hard to find since the title changed
Bent vs Straight-arm Forehands

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/famouscoach/pat_cash/straight_arm_bent_part_1/

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/famouscoach/pat_cash/straight_arm_bent_part_2/

#

[johnyandell]

I agree with Pat. It's a joke for most club players to try to go straight arm unless it's just natural. Furthermore arm configuration is low on the list for most of the blub players I see with horrible other technical problems.

[stotty]

I agree with Pat. It's a joke for most club players to try to go straight arm unless it's just natural. Furthermore arm configuration is low on the list for most of the blub players I see with horrible other technical problems.

No performance coaching for club players in my view. What I call 'practical coaching''is the only way to go. It's about making shots somehow work...not hitting the back fence. I should know. I work in the trenches.

[johnyandell]

Yes keep it off the back fence

[jimlosaltos]

Off the back fence. I like that. Subtle

Any thoughts anyone on Jannik's forehand vs Carlos's ?

P.S. Tangentially, Rune put the ball into the back fence in Barcelona, I think it was -- Past Jannik's head after the point was over. I saw one, understand there were two.