Have a Question for Me?

[johnyandell]

Jolly,
Makes sense--sorta. Wanna post a video?

[J011yroger]

Jolly,
Makes sense--sorta. Wanna post a video?

Sure, of what?

J

[johnyandell]

Say your new FH?

[J011yroger]

Say your new FH?

Sure, I'll see what I can do.

J

[johnyandell]

Ok then.

[mikebeck]

John: I am looking for any videos or drills that focus on playing the first ball after the serve. That is, after one serves, they often face a deep ball requiring a compact swing. Do you have any video segments that demonstrate this shot (off of a deep return)?

[johnyandell]

Here is one:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/RF_FH_Center&stroke=RFFHCenterOpenStanceSide2_500fps.mp4&new=

In general go through the hs archives on fhs and bhs center. Pick the player you like. Look for the player starting the motion after the serve landing inside the baseline. But you may not find as much variation as you assume.

[nytennisaddict]

Ok, here goes.

I have been thinking about how to get this in words and I'm still struggling a little, so forgive me if I jump around a bit.

Usually when you say something is a continuous motion people think of it as either a steady speed, or perpetually accelerating; but that is not what we want.

When you breathe your lungs are in continuous motion, it is rare for one to hold their breath, but a focus technique to help you become present is to make yourself aware of the exact moments between inhale and exhale.

If someone attempts a continuous motion and wants to hit the ball hard they are going to move their racquet too fast in the takeback which will firstly lead to late, rushed preparation, and secondly by going too fast backwards and up the will have to use effort to move the racquet back, and then extra effort to make the turn. All of this causes tightness in the shoulder which will sap speed, inhibit extension, and cause pulling across the body.

Ideally, you unit turn early and slowly stretching across the torso as you get hip/shoulder separation, and build a little potential energy as your hand is slightly above where it will be at contact. This is where the pause is, the actuality of it or duration is determined by your timing, available time, and your footwork. Ideally it is not a real pause, but a slowdown where the racquet will kind of float along it's path in a sort of zero gravity effect because ok why would you just be standing there with your racquet up in the air waiting for the ball when you could be attacking the ball with you feet and taking time away from your opponent. Fed is a great example, sometimes he is swinging before the ball bounces, no time to waste there.

From the pause your arm is relaxed and falls into the slot with minimal effort and a little help from gravity, then when your hand gets to the right spot you turn on the gas and swing to the outside of the ball.

When I watch for timing and this sort of stuff it's much easier for me to see in regular speed as opposed to high speed, you can get a much better feeling for how much everything slows down at "the pause."

Especially watch warm up videos or practice sessions where the players are hitting slower to find their timing.

J

ah, i see what you're saying...
sounds like i do the same thing, but i don't call it a pause... i'd describe it more as, "my hand stops actively moving the racquet".
at that point i let gravity take over, and the hand "falls" to below contact height, and basically just hangs on (pulling the racquet with it) to be thrown forward when i fire my hips.

i think many folks who are arm the ball too much will try to keep hand/arm active throughout the stroke, and try to control the racquet throughout.

[johnyandell]

I more or less by this...

[don_budge]

The racquet head is an extension of the hand. To this everything will be effected in the duration of the stroke. John McEnroe most likely has a somewhat continental grip that somewhat may explain his open racquet face compared to Federer's in the backswing. Interesting question? Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Thanks for putting your stuff up on video. You take a chance. But the good news is the swing is coming along nicely. It just needs a little ironing to get the little wrinkles out. Probably imperceptible to most. My eyes are fastidious...they see friction in swings. Swings don't have to be perfect to be effective either. McEnroe has a very noticeable hitch in his backswing but he makes the proper counter moves to correct it in the delivery. johnyandell has some excellent insight into the McEnroe motion...I wish he would weigh in. I might just pose a question to him. He may not be following this thread.

Looking at your motion I would sort of lean towards some sort of hybrid between the Federer/McEnroe motion. There looks to be a lot of improvement since the last time you posted which reflects a lot of work no doubt. The work is never done it seems with serves and golf swings. There is always a little more efficiency to eek out. Go to work glacierguy...then post an update for us!

johnyandell...we have a bit of discussion that I would like your input on if you have the time. In the thread "Shoulder rotation and getting to trophy position" I have made some comments to glacierguy with regards to his motion using Roger Federer (your model in the teaching series) and John McEnroe (who you worked with) as models for a somewhat hybrid analysis. glacierguy has posted some nice slo mo videos giving us all the time in the world to look at his motion. Really interesting in what you might say. doctorhl also posed an interesting question about John McEnoroe's service grip that you might have an idea about. Thanks.

[johnyandell]

That thread! Was hoping to avoid but...in the middle of Feb issue but will attempt to put my head around it...in a day or two...

[don_budge]

That thread! Was hoping to avoid but...in the middle of Feb issue but will attempt to put my head around it...in a day or two...

haha...really? No...it has just sort of morphed into a bit of John McEnroe. Specifically I was curious if you had some thing to share about you collaboration with John with his service issues. Busy...busy...busy. Churning out another great issue I suppose. Thanks...Man.

[johnyandell]

Here is the article about that:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/VisualTennis_Part2/Yandell_VTP2_McEnroe_Case_Study.html

[don_budge]

Here is the article about that:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ase_Study.html

Absolutely brilliant story. Another case of being FC (Fundamentally Correct). In curing most serving maladies you look first at the set up and then the backswing. In John's case his unusual setup promoted a backswing that was seriously off track. John was able to get it back on track. This is pure John Yandell. The 1984 filmings were some of the best tennis art to date. I'm talking about the music videos starring the great John McEnroe and the great Ivan Lendl.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...eys_large.html

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...rve_large.html

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...ing_large.html

Oooops...forgot one. Forever Mine...

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/music_videos/breaking_serve/breaking_serve_large.html

[johnyandell]

Forever Mine is a favorite song of mine...Shayla is up there too. Thanks DB