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[rosheem]

Conflicting Styles - College vs. Adult Club

John,

I just had a chance to watch my first Division 1 men's tennis match, U of Illinois vs. Notre Dame.

My impressions were very similar to what you wrote about in your article about the 2007 Easter Bowl. (In fact, Johnny Hamui plays for U of I, and he does have a sweet one-handed backhand.)

In your Easter Bowl article, you mention that the evolution of this style of play is like a chicken-and-egg scenario...high bouncing balls lead to high contact points which lead to more high-bouncing balls.

The good news is that the technique I have developed for myself is pretty close to what I saw these guys doing, so I was happy about that.

The bad news is that I rarely see those types of balls coming at me in match play at the 4.0 level or even at the 4.5 level.

So I tried to watch carefully to see what those college kids did on balls that were lower or shorter. First of all, there really weren't that many. Even the serves bounce up high into the strike zone. But when they did get a short or low ball, they usually ended up approaching. Either way, they always committed to a full swing and any changes to their basic swing shape were pretty minor. They seemed to pretty much hit every ball the same way.

How do I use what I saw and learned to improve my own game? I can't just preferentially choose college-type hitters to hit against...I have to win my way up and the road is full of USTA veteran guys who simply don't produce that kind of ball.

Right now, it seems like I need to just continue improving my footwork, timing, and technique so that I can be MUCH more aggressive and simply just impose my game on my opponents. I can only imagine if one of those college kids played against one of my typical opponents, that's what he would do.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[johnyandell]

Jim,

It's virtually impossible to diagnosis this without seeing video. Have you got any place to post some? There are two many factors in the preparation and foreswing for me to be able to answer that question unless I see the stroke.

John Yandell

[jimj1961]

John,

I am loving working on my game utilizing all the tools on the website. I appreciate you taking time to answers all the questions you get.

My question now is on upper body rotation through the shot, for example the forehand on a right handed player. Which shoulder triggers the rotation...are you using the left shoulder shoulder leading the stroke or is the right shoulder dominate in turning through the shot?

It's evident on the video I have taken, that I have almost no rotation coming through the ball.

Thanks,

Jim

[jimj1961]

Thanks John,

Right now I'm focusing on the non-hitting arm as in your article about Danielle, and the double bend with the hitting arm and wrist. Hopefully, I'll have some video at some point.

[johnyandell]

I think it's hard to take apart more than one stroke at a time. The mental game--that can be pretty much a constant. You have to trust your instincts. If you feel overloaded even if you know what you are trying to work on is correct, then it's too much.

[jimj1961]

Thanks John,

I created a thread for this question but realized I should have posted here.


I'm a 3.0-3.5 player who has been playing a year, after 20+ years off. I've just started working on the double bend forehand during drills, with ball machines, and in friendly matches.

Also, I'm working on the mental aspect of the game as it relates to a Jeff Greenwald article here. The takeaway there for me is to not get wrap up in matches, games, points or each ball, but to take a 30,000 foot view of my game, and where I want to end up. It's hard for me, but I know that approach is the correct one.

My question is...How much should you be working on at a given time? What is realistic, and what is not. I know that it's different for everyone, but I would appreciate a general idea for someone of my level.

[johnyandell]

I try to stay away from analogies with other sports I don't understand...but as for the serve, try the articles in Advanced Tennis on Federer's serve or the Sampras article on Racket Path in Tour Strokes.

[jimj1961]

John,

As a new subscriber, I just love the site. Especially helpful for me has been the "double bend" forehand, I just started working on this, and my forehand has improved already. I wonder if the premise isn't a bit similar to the golf swing, where you want to hold the club angle as long as possible. Also, is there any part of the double bend technique that applies to the serve?

Forgive me if that's a dumb question, just coming back to the game after 25 years, and am a 3.0 player.

Thanks again for a great website!

[johnyandell]

Dennis,

Suggest you look at the new forehand series in advanced tennis. It talks specifically about the value or not of closing the racket face in the backswing and there is an entire segment on the contact point. And thanks for the good words.

John Yandell

[denniskirchoff]

take back on two handed backhand

I have a student whose racquet head on take back in my opinion is too closed. Not much specific emphasis on that, either written or video. I also think it would be helpful if there were a bit more emphasis on point of contact.

Overall, please hear that i think your site is the best out there and very helpful to me as an instructor.

[johnyandell]

I think it's a bad idea to try to rotate the shoulders. If the set up at the full turn is correct and you swing through to the extension point that will happen in the right sequence. Seen a lot of people get off the tract trying to intervene in that.

Jeff's description is a great way of looking at it.

[ahile02]

Few quick q's about the forehand,

1. From watching videos in the high speed archive, it appears that the shoulders should start to open somewhat before the racquet reaches the bottom of the backswing. Is this correct?

2. After doing some research in the forum, I know you feel the term "kinetic chain" is improperly applied somewhat. I hate to use it, but for lack of a better term, in the kinetic chain are the shoulders opened consciously or if a player "loads and explodes" correctly, the should rotation happens on its own?

I found Jeff Count's articles concerning the double-bend extremely informative. Would you also agree the forehand "swing" is not really a "swing, but a pushing(pulling?) and lifting motion?

[johnyandell]

Harry,
Read the Sampras book it has a lot of similar information.
John Yandell

[johnyandell]

Good idea. We will eventually put her up in the stroke archive and maybe we can go forward from there. But somehow I doubt her coach is an avid reader of Tennisplayer.

[mcrok]

zvonareva

Hi John,
What do you think of the Zvonareva serve? It seems to me that apart from the fact tha she has some mental issues (the match against Penetta at the Us open) , while serving the movement of the body after contact is more to the side than foreward. I'd like your opinion. I think it's because i feel sorry for her after her match against Azarenka. I remember the piece on Jankovic. Maybe a similar thing could be done for her. They all change serves Dementieva, Henin etc. so why not her. What do you think of some unasked advice?