Have a Question for Me?

[dpremsagar]

Why do all the female pros have inefficient technique on their strokes compared to male pros?

Numerous coaches on this site including you have mentioned the many inefficiencies in the female world of tennis strokes. Their movement and footwork basics to me, look as good as men.

They don't use the ATP models of forehands and backhands swings. They put the left hand on the racquet's handle in stead of the throat in the ready position. Why don't they time the racquet drop properly on serve?

Are there no female tennis players in the world who use optimal techniques?
Or do such players exist but they're not able to break out into the upper echelons of professional tennis?

[johnyandell]

Prem,
If you tried to exchange groundstrokes with Sharapova or return Serena's serve I don't think you would describe female technique as inefficient. Macci and Brian Gordon think they have defined something close to optimum and they probably have but I wouldn't discount the incredible shot production of women who may not match their models. Check out Kvitova's forehand in the Forum for another example.
Henin changed her strokes closer to the male models on the forehand and serve and that was significant.
Why most women have pinpoints and extreme pinpoints like Venus in many cases is an interesting question. I don't think we have the answer at this point.

[dpremsagar]

Thanks John,

Oh well, I shouldn't worry about it anyway. I was just curious why the stroke paradigms are so different between the genders.

Gordon's research and Macci's models of forehand and backhand have been a blessing for me.

[ralph]

Volley swing/ball speed

I will be looking forward to future info about these devices. Concerning the "average concept", data for the group using this device is always being calculated and averaged. The data base does seem to be very substantial. Based on the averages being presented, I am assuming many players are not at a high level. For example, the average serve speed is about 69 mph. Keeping in mind the kind of group population, the info does seem to be useful.

Thanks for your reply.

ralph

[jimlosaltos]

Is spin on ATP tour increasing?

John,

Do you have any sense of whether spin of groundstrokes is increasing on the ATP and if so why?

We don't get the type of stats other sports do, so it's hard to be certain of a trend, but there seems to be a hodgepodge of data that indicates that's so.

For example, I combined this image from NYT (which uses your TPN data!) and HawkEye data from Brisbane earlier this month. It shows that in 2012 Fed's forehand averaged 2,700 RPMs but at Brisbane he was over 3,000 RPMs and Raonic, who isn't known for spin topped 2,800. Fed's backhand spin approaches that of his FHD circa 2012.

If it was just Fed, I'd guess the racket change was the reason. But there are a smattering of similar numbers. Rafa at 3,413 RPMs for last summer (up 200) and, although we don't have history because they're newcomers Thanes Kokkinakis at 3,369 RPMs and Jack Sock 3,336 RPMs (all 3 for last summer clay). A Thiem forehand at 4,498, etc.

Now, all these numbers are going to vary somewhat but a 300 RPM increase seems noteworthy. Open strings? Lower tension? Bigger rackets. Training? How HawkEye measures things?

Thanks in advance for any feedback. Hope this is of interest. / jim

[IMG]6a00d83420958953ef01b8d194ee3d970c-800wi by Jim Fawcette, on Flickr[/IMG]

[dpremsagar]

Trying to understand the serve

I've a question about racquet drop on the serve. Does the racquet head need to be dropped 'deliberately' or 'wildly'?

I am probably not using the best terms, but please hear me out.

Consider a forehand ground stroke. I would call the backswing for a forehand to be 'deliberate'. At 500 fps, the initiation of forward swing could seem to be deliberate too. But its not. Its WILD. The Wildness at the beginning of the forward swing is what causes the enormous racquet head speed. If somebody tried to mimic the forward swing in slow motion and did it deliberately, they would lay their wrist back slowly and the potential energy for a powerful ground stroke would evaporate.

Likewise you've mentioned how many coaches make the mistake of telling their students to 'deliberately' wrap-around on the 2handed BH follow through. Here, in my understanding, the wrap-around is just a consequence of a 'Wild' forward swing and it would be a mistake to make it deliberate.

So, applying this to a serve. I understand that during the serve motion, until the racquet tip points to the sky, the motion is 'deliberate'.

Assuming I'm not mistaken yet, does the wild part of the serve begin with the initiation of the racquet drop? Or the racquet drop is deliberate too and the wild part begins after the racquet drop?

[johnyandell]

Jim,
No I don't. Of course it could just vary by circumstance. How many shots was that data based on? The 10% of whatever higher number is well within the total spin range of Fed--which is 1000 to almost 5000rpm so... But I have also seen much higher "average" numbers for Nadal.
I believe that the hawkeye system generating this data is inferring spin from the curve on the ball. Don't know what the error margins on that are. I know our counts were accurate because we literally counted rotations. If we get the chance we might to some checking.

[johnyandell]

Prem,

I don't know about "wild." Your arm should be very relaxed in the windup and the drop. And relatively relaxed in the upward swing. If you can throw a football or a baseball or even a tennis ball well do it and note the relative relaxation and tension in the various parts of the motion. Those are about the same as on the serve.

[johnyandell]

Ralph,
Not really that helpful if you don't know who the average players are. The pocket radar gun is a better measure you can see you against others you know.

did you see this one:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/technology_in_teaching/john_yandell/measuring_change_radar_technology/

[dpremsagar]

Prem,

I don't know about "wild." Your arm should be very relaxed in the windup and the drop. And relatively relaxed in the upward swing. If you can throw a football or a baseball or even a tennis ball well do it and note the relative relaxation and tension in the various parts of the motion. Those are about the same as on the serve.

Relaxation is absolutely vital for a clean serve. I will remember that.

But perhaps, I did not express my qualm properly and it's difficult to put it into words.

If we consider the ground strokes, our aim is to generate max racquet head speed. So in order to teach/learn, it gets segmented into backswing (for preparation) and forward swing(for explosion). The forward swing is where the magic happens. The aim of the backswing is to set the player and the racquet in the optimum position for an explosive forward swing. Right?

Likewise, in a serve, where does the explosive part begin?

Is it at the beginning of the racquet drop or the end of the racquet drop?

The reason I'm asking this is because I misunderstood fluidity on a serve. Hence the speed at which I move the racquet head from the beginning of serve motion to racquet drop is constant.

I think I need to change this. I think I need to slow it down until the trophy position and speed it up to drop the racquet head and swing forward. But I'm not sure.

[johnyandell]

Now that's close to right. Look at the Sampras article. The racket goes from 30mph to 90mph from the drop to the contact.

That's 1/10th of a second. Yes there is a gradually build up over the previous motion but that is something you don't force.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/sampras_serve/sampras_serve_racket_head_speed/sampras_serve_racket_head_speed.html

[eaglesburg]

https://youtu.be/SP-HsGKJH2k

How do these backhands look? I'm experimenting with straightening the left arm and it feels pretty good.
It's obviously a very controlled setting but have to start somewhere...

Thanks John!!

[johnyandell]

Yeah fine. But really you (or I) can't say anything meaningful. You need to actually be hitting an incoming ball...

[leonmelideotennisfanatic]

Hi John, Just perused some comments germane to the proliferation of the low forehand follow in the forum. I know the reasons for the execution of this stroke , as you certainly do. I would like to introduce this fact into this conversation. How much have you , personally studied Novak's forehand? If you have studied this stroke as much as I, there is one incontrovertible fact. Novak probably about 90 percent of the time never exhibits that low follow thru. He finishes with the racquet head over his left shoulder and his racquet face doesn't really close dramatically. His stroke is very conservative compared to most of the players. That is another component of why he is tough to defeat. That low follow thru is dynamic but unless struck to perfection can produce a plethora of errors, and short balls. Novak's follow thru would certainly resemble Connors' more than Roger's. His forehand is very low risk. What do you think John?

[johnyandell]

Leon,
You are partially correct. The height of his finish is above Federer and on many balls or even most it does go over his shoulder eventually.

BUT what you may be missing is his integrated use of the wiper. The racket tip and the hand arm and racket turn over up to 180 degrees in many or most of his swings. This he combines with a more upward swing plane which is characteristic of his grip--hence the over the shoulder wrap

Watch his racket tip go from one sideline to the other from contact out into the followthrough. All his shots have some degree of this. So it is much more "modern" than Connors. More extreme grip, poly strings, big wiper.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Novak_Djokovic_2015_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Forehand/ND_FH_Inside_In&stroke=ND%20FH%20InsideIn%20Front1%20500fps.mp4