Have a Question for Me?

[stotty]

John

Not sure if you've read Daniel McCain's book yet but in it he talks how Federer snaps his wrist. I know you're not a believer in wrist snapping but can I run something by you.

In the case of Jack Sock, who seems incredibly wristy, how can his wristyness be explained? Is he just wristy prior to aligning the wrist up before contact...and does his wrist go passive just prior to contact and thereafter? Is his wrist contributing any power? is there any benefit in being more wristy...or does excessive wristyness make most of us more prone to error?

I find Sock's forehand downright amazing to watch. I would love to see his forehand slowed right down so I could take a look at what's going on in there.

[johnyandell]

I don't know what Dan means by snap. Waiting to get his book. I would love to have some high speed footage of Sock. Don't. I get a little tired of this argument. It's not usually based on detailed analysis of the players where the claim is made. Again the there is no conscious forward flexion. The muscles actually work to restrain it. I am sure if I live to be 100 there will still be coaches telling players to snap the wrist on the forehand and the serve.

[stotty]

I don't know what Dan means by snap. Waiting to get his book. I would love to have some high speed footage of Sock. Don't. I get a little tired of this argument. It's not usually based on detailed analysis of the players where the claim is made. Again the there is no conscious forward flexion. The muscles actually work to restrain it. I am sure if I live to be 100 there will still be coaches telling players to snap the wrist on the forehand and the serve.

An excerpt from Dan's book. I believe he derived this info from ESPN Sports Science:

He (Roger) snaps his wrist about one-tenth of a second before impact with an angular momentum of about 900 degrees per second. The acceleration of the wrists accounts for only 30 percent of his overall racquet speed....

I just wonder when Dan refers to "snapping" he is simply referring to closing/aligning the wrist just before contact as oppose to during contact and after, which is the way I see it.

I was really thinking more about the practical benefits of using wrist. I think it facilitates quicker wielding of the racket, important in a fast moving game. I know McEnroe's forehand was simple, but when you try it, it actually eats up more time than you think to produce.

I am half way through Dan's book...it's a good read.

[johnyandell]

Again I just do not believe, never did, and this is now backed up by Brian, that there is a forward flex or snap. It's true on some balls the wrist comes around and this will contribute to racket speed. But again, the players are trying to reduce this swinging of the hinge to align the racket face. The amount of lay back at contact varies wildly and if this was some fundamental factor you wouldn't see it the way you see it in the footage.

Not sure where or how Dan got his data. Just because it's in a book doesn't make it valid.

[stotty]

Serve questions...

John

A couple of quick questions:

Is pronation (the angle of the racket and contact point) the ONLY deal breaker in creating spin on the serve (being as the wrist is passive)? Does going for slice on a serve significantly reduce the amount of internal rotation a player can get?

[johnyandell]

Good question.

Look at this on a wide slice:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Roger_Federer_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Serve/RF_Location&stroke=RF_1stS_Deuce_Wide_Front1_250fps.mp4

This article may help too:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/federer_serve/serve_locations/1st_serve_deuce_court/

And this:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1530

This may show it best of all:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1091

The racket needs to be traveling slightly more right to left to hit the slice. BUT that is a slight difference in the timing of the internal arm rotation, commonly and incorrectly called pronation.

And yeah you can do that with reduced and/or virtually no arm rotation after contact--but that is just giving up racket speed.

[stotty]

Great help and advice. Thanks for digging that stuff out for me, John.

[johnyandell]

No prob. Recently someone I know asked Pete to show him his "pronation" on the wide deuce serve. Pete said: "I don't pronate..."

[klacr]

John

Not sure if you've read Daniel McCain's book yet but in it he talks how Federer snaps his wrist. I know you're not a believer in wrist snapping but can I run something by you.

In the case of Jack Sock, who seems incredibly wristy, how can his wristyness be explained? Is he just wristy prior to aligning the wrist up before contact...and does his wrist go passive just prior to contact and thereafter? Is his wrist contributing any power? is there any benefit in being more wristy...or does excessive wristyness make most of us more prone to error?

I find Sock's forehand downright amazing to watch. I would love to see his forehand slowed right down so I could take a look at what's going on in there.

stotty and John


I encouraged Dan to join the site and reminded him he gets a free 30 day subscription. I'd love for him to come on the forum to explain the statement that you brought up regarding the wrist "snap". It's easy to take out of context and perhaps the author didn't explain the idea clearly enough but its simply a matter of different adjectives and terminology. The snap phase was meant to describe the acceleration during the hitting zone. As another way of describing torque, forearm rotation etc. It is not as simple as a snap of the wrist like many of us have discussed and John has debunked and explained numerous times on this site and at other gatherings/coaches forums.
But I prefer not to put words in Dan's mouth as he is more than intellectually capable (he went to University of Michigan ) of explaining and answering your question on his own. I hope Dan makes use of the 30 day offer and chimes in.
Stotty, he'll be thrilled to know you enjoy his book.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[seano]

Another article from Dr. Brian Gordon's 2-Handed BH

John -

In the last paragraph of Dr. Gordon's ATP 2-Handed Backhand - The Forward Swing (Jan. 2015). He says that in his next article he will discuss an on court explanation. Is that article coming?

Sean

[johnyandell]

Yes and coming slowly... Brian and I have been working on something else that could be big. Can't talk about it yet...but that pushed the article schedule back. Plus Brian has become so popular at Macci's that his teaching schedule is overflowing which is great!

[seano]

John

The information on Tennisplayer is second to none. I've been teaching for 35 years and recently analyzing how it has changed, most can be attributed to all the incredible information you provide. It keeps me highly motivated to keep learning and makes my job more enjoyable. I enjoy being smarter than everyone else . Keep up the great work.

Sean

[johnyandell]

Sean,

I really love hearing that. Trying to understand the game is what drives me and Tennisplayer.

[stotty]

I have a player who keeps his left hand on the racket longer than most as he takes the racket back into his backswing. He has a nice deep turn and I assume keeping the left hand on the racket longer contributes to this. My question however is this:

He struggles (under duress) to hit crosscourt when pulled out wide. Could the left arm be acting as a block in this scenario? Would I be best to advise him to release the left hand slightly earlier when pulled out wide? Is there a coaching methodology on this one?

[johnyandell]

I would see where the left arm stretch is at the bounce of the ball. It should be fully extended to the sideline at about the bounce. You need video of course. If the left arm is still on the racket that could be the problem. I would work on him to make that checkpoint and the problem might self-correct.