Have a Question for Me?

[TCIROGY20]

Help with this please?

How would you train your player to decide when and how to attack a 3/4 length ball?

Discuss

[johnyandell]

Great question. The obvious answer is at the right moment in a way that is effective depending on level.

In pro tennis this is difficult to impossible in many or most circumstances. It isn't possible to generate enough pressure to overcome the speed and weight of the passing shots.

At the level of 99% of the tennis world the slice approaches on both sides with accurate, competent volleys can a winner. Or relatively flat or heavier topspin drives, followed by volleys or swinging volleys.

Training should be progressive. Simple lower level difficulty to create and insure technical competence, followed by backcourt point games, practice games, sets, matches, etc.

[stotty]

John,

Would players who use a continental grip on their forehand be more likely to have a straight arm on contact compared to players with more extreme grips? Or are grips insignificant in the straight arm versus double bend debate?

Any idea if their is a key factor in the development process that triggers a player to become straight arm?

Sorry if the questions seem naive. I couldn't find any articles that provided any answers, though there are so many in the archive that I could well well have missed something.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

No those are great questions I have wondered about myself. And I don't really have answers. If we had our type of film going back to the 40s that would be interesting.

Mac seems to be fairly straight. There is one Laver clip that looks straight. But we don't have much to go on do we?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_forehand/mac_forehand.html?MacFHCenterFront.pct

As to evolving to the straight another great question. I have had players come to my court who were not trained on hitting arm structure and a few are naturally straight.

Brian Gordon says in a perfect a world straight probably has advantages but that the difficulty nukes that for most players.

I personally have never tried to change someone to straight. But if someone wanted to try I'd do it the same way as I work on anything--find a model image, have the player physically master it and visualize it, then video it and see what happens...

[stroke]

Something I have noticed watching McEnroe on the seniors tour on TV. He does hit his continental with a pretty straight arm, and he can obviously hit topspin with that grip, pretty unusual he can do it with that grip. On his backhand with that same continental grip, his arm, particulary when he hits topspin, looks to be kind of bent, I am not sure he gets it locked out straight even at contact, but it is clearly a great shot.

[stotty]

Stotty,

No those are great questions I have wondered about myself. And I don't really have answers. If we had our type of film going back to the 40s that would be interesting.

Mac seems to be fairly straight. There is one Laver clip that looks straight. But we don't have much to go on do we?

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/johnmcenroe/mac_forehand/mac_forehand.html?MacFHCenterFront.pct

As to evolving to the straight another great question. I have had players come to my court who were not trained on hitting arm structure and a few are naturally straight.

Brian Gordon says in a perfect a world straight probably has advantages but that the difficulty nukes that for most players.

I personally have never tried to change someone to straight. But if someone wanted to try I'd do it the same way as I work on anything--find a model image, have the player physically master it and visualize it, then video it and see what happens...

I was just curious. Fifteen of us all grew up together at the club where I work. We all have mild grips. Some of us are straight arm, the rest have very moderate bends; none of us have a bend remotely like Djokovic. I realise just fifteen players is an inadequate number for a study, but it got me thinking...so I wondered if you knew more.

It's irresistible to think some minor movement might trigger a player to be straight arm. Then again it may just be an innate thing.

Thanks for your input, stroke. 10splayer once noted that McEnroe's arm on his forehand stays in almost the same fixed position throughout his backswing and follow through.

McEnroe is interesting because he uses no wrist. So you get to see great hands at work without wrists cluttering the view. You get to see pure handwork and the subtle a part they play. It's a deft business.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

I think 15 makes a pretty good study! This isn't academia or medical journal research, thank god...

The double bend becomes more extreme the more underneath the grip, so what you say about your group makes perfect sense.

I would only consider the experiement bent to straight or vice versa if all the other fundamentals were sound (and you could recover if necessary...). A Federer image, some physical modeling, who knows?

[roycehibbert]

is there such a thing as too compact of a backswing?

My back swing on my forehand is pretty linear, do you guys think there would be a benefit of making it slightly circular by raising my hand a bit more on the way back?

thanks!

[stroke]

I was just curious. Fifteen of us all grew up together at the club where I work. We all have mild grips. Some of us are straight arm, the rest have very moderate bends; none of us have a bend remotely like Djokovic. I realise just fifteen players is an inadequate number for a study, but it got me thinking...so I wondered if you knew more.

It's irresistible to think some minor movement might trigger a player to be straight arm. Then again it may just be an innate thing.

Thanks for your input, stroke. 10splayer once noted that McEnroe's arm on his forehand stays in almost the same fixed position throughout his backswing and follow through.

McEnroe is interesting because he uses no wrist. So you get to see great hands at work without wrists cluttering the view. You get to see pure handwork and the subtle a part they play. It's a deft business.

I watched some of the McEnroe/Roddick match on the senior Poweshares tour. Mac lost but he played a very competitive set and it did not look like Roddick was letting up, making it close, to me. Certainly Roodicks serve was the difference maker in the set, but watching Mac move in so close on Roddicks 2nd serve(or even baseline rallies, taking time away) and using his volley style
groundstrokes to put pressure on Roddick is something. Courier once called Mac the best 55 year old tennis player ever. So compact and energy saving style. The blueprint for enjoying and playing competitive tennis as one ages.

[johnyandell]

Royce,

I wouldn't worry about linear versus circular. I would check out the two articles by Rick Macci and establish the ATP backswing position. From there follow the directions of the forward swing. The shape of everything will take care of itself.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_performance/rick_macci/develop_atp_forehand/

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_performance/rick_macci/develop_atp_forehand_2/

[roycehibbert]

2 handed backhand and carrying angle of arm

So one thing I have been thinking about for a while is why I can't hit a 2-handed backhand. I tried hitting it for a few months and it just never felt right. In the articles here I read that this is related to left/right arm dominance or perhaps even the anatomy of the arms. I think one factor that might be very important is the carrying angle of the arm. My arms have a bit of extra bend starting at my elbow and it took me a while to find out that the term for this bend is "carrying angle". I think that it is possible that this is the reason a 2-hander feels so awkward for me. Have you guys noticed this trait in your students who are natural one-handers? picture example: http://o.quizlet.com/iGlXRYNITGPPPKwP.cWvZw_m.jpg

thanks!

[johnyandell]

Interesting, a factor I never considered.

But if you are an adult male you are in the majority in not being natural in trying the two-hander. And interestingly, a watch 5.0 anfd 5.5 NTRP matches at one of my clubs and a lot of the guy former college players now in their 30s and 40s don't look so natural on the two either.

[gzhpcu]

John, since yesterday I keep getting this email:

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No idea what is going on...

[johnyandell]

All is well now, no? Some mystery glitch...

[lobndropshot]

I got 5 of the same email.