Kimiko Date mr Landsorp

[chokomakashi]

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[johnyandell]

I'd suggest you study the relationship between grip, stance, and contact height:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/your_forehand_and_the_modern_forehand/grip/your_forehand_and_the_modern_forehand_grip.html

[johnyandell]

There is a clip of her forehand in the grips article in Advanced Tennis.

[johnyandell]

Look under backswing under Advanced Tennis in the series at the top.

[johnyandell]

I tend to agree that the simpler the better. As I have said many times before, and in my forehand series, and in these posts before there is a difference in understanding the pros and copying them.

What Robert teaches will give you the sound foundation to develop more options. If you read his article on the 3 forehand finishes you'll see that he believes the game has evolved.

[chuck62]

classic style

I think you make some good points. One modern player who also hits a relatively flat ball is Melanie Oudin. I think this is why she can sometimes outhit much bigger players. When I hear announcers say that she needs to use more topspin I think thats crazy. I think the smaller players need to hit a flatter more penetrating ball that can be hit hard with less physical strength. Another benefit of the flatter style is it looks more like a volley swing, so usually those players with flatter forehands, like Sampras, tend to be better at volleying. I bet Kimiko Date is a good volleyer.

[jctennis]

One thought. I think the reason you aren't getting response is that all these posts are very rambling unfocused and hard to understand. At the same time, although you probably don't mean it this way, the tone is sort of argumentitive. Also for people who are familiar with the incredible range of articles on the site, many of the questions you raised are sort of non-issues in that they have been coherently addressed many times by a wide range of experts. It's great you have discovered the site, you are like a kid in a candy store.

[chuck62]

The jump

Choko, When you teach the serve. Do you teach an initial jump over the baseline as you make contact ? Or do you first try to master solid contact with pronation before trying to get the student off the ground at contact ?

[10splayer]

Boy.. I mean there are so many tennis instractors really do not know the mechanics of stroke or serve.. pretty amazing... i mean i will never say i know the stuff... i am still learning.. that's why sometimes I don't feel happy when I teach... I continue to look mechanics of swing.. i usually watch 2 hours a day... and i go park and try myself.. it is great because you find new things everyday... that's why i want to only teach basic stuff first which will never hurt their game...

Okay back to serve.. there are so many way of hiting but there are so many instractors teach "Momentum" swing.. i mean let racket drop with using racket momentum.. and this is not true..

once racket go up.. the handle goes to next to right ear.. then handle doesnn't go down.. it goes up... swing may not stop but handle isn't dropping... it is going up....

and there are two motion to the service motion... unlike baseball tennis racket is long.. therefore, it need two motion to bring to right position...

it is not difficult to explain but it is hard without showing picture....

anybody interested in knowing it??

Seriously, if you want to find the most complete, thorough, insightful, aritcle ever written on service mechanics, left click on the biomechanics section and sink your teeth into Brian Gordon's article.

[holyhobo]

Why don't you Podcast. Would love to hear you!

[prince01]

straight back backswing; flat or topspin?

Excellent discussion. I'm currently helping my 11yo son with his game. He has a great forehand with a semiwestern grip, with a little spin and good pace and depth. My problem is his backhand. He hits it mostly flat and not consistent with it getting the balls in or giving it direction, especially crosscourt. He has a 2 hand backhand, continental grip on RH, semiwestern on LH (he is rt. handed). He developed a backswing that the racket goes low and then up (is that the loop backswing?). Original coach (which develped his FH) taught him to hit flat balls with a little bit of spin, which he does on his FH and is his weapon. But he is not able to do that on BH.

So we went to coach #2. Describing to him the problem, he suggests that he hits more topspin, hitting low to high, hitting more under the ball, practice hitting angle shots and BH swing volleys to develop the feel for the spin. I sort of agree, considering he was trying to hit flat with little spin and was not consistent. My concern is... Should I develop his top spin backhand ? What he forgets to hit flat with small spin? I think it was Landsdrop on Famous coaches who talked about the "Academy ball". Should i have him develop the "Academy ball"- hitting topspin, hitting deep, or develop his flat but small spin on BH and just develop his timing? Should I change his loop backswing to straightback (coach #2 says that its ok to stick with it). What should be the progression on teaching juniors - teaching topspin or flat with little spin. Pls advise.

[prince01]

service

i enjoy reading your posts and fresh ideas. Can you explain more on the serve. Where should be the toss at? Position of the foot? The No. 1 postion on the racket, is it the same as taking the racket at the back with head pointing on the ground, butt facing up?

Thanks.

hello people.. many people talks about ground stroke and not many talks about service motion or overhead... there aren't one coach really famous for service.. pete fisher??? sampras' service coach....

honestly i haven't met any coach who really knows how to teach the serve...

i mean honestly including myself i am not too confident about it.. still learning...

if you do not learn service correctly.. just like ground stroke you will never get to next level.. like grip.. know how to pronate.. know how to hit the ball FLAT... lol... not just spinining in.. well.. this effect won't show until you hit overhead.. don't you see at the park? there are many people whose overhead just slide away from the court? and goes off by mile?? can only hit cross court.. not to down the line... it is because they don't know how to hit right....all the great server had great overhead.. i mean sampras.. i have seen very few overhead mistake from here...

if you want to get concept of the serve.. do not try full motion.. it will kill you...i like everything to make it as simple as you can...

easiest way and easiest way to get concept is to put racket.. i mean not racket face but edge of the racket to middle of back... so it looks like you have number 1 in your back... then gradually move that racket up...that is the final stage of the serve.. as you can see just before you hit the ball you are about hit the tennis ball with edge of the racket not racket face.. this allow you to hit the ball with spin or flat without telling opponent.. not many coach or player know how to do this.. most player.. if you go play at park you will see racket face is compeletely right behind the ball way before they hit the ball.. this is wrong... if you have eastern grip this will happen and secondly if you don't learn correctly you never get it.... i have never met coach actually really really emphasize on this.. and how to get there is very challenging.. you must be very flexible and relax as well...

if you want to learn really how to hit like way pros do.. i recommend these coaches very much.... 1) get cheap digital camera and tripod, 2) basket of ball 3) and if you have access to this side great...

then anlazy your swing.... believe me you willl see something very interesting.... lol.... personally i have problem which my racket goes off the track easily... doesn't line up correctly.. hard to explain here... that's why i do drill which i do start from put racket middle of back... you go check any server there is one point racket .. i mean it really don't touch but it passes middle of back like number 1 on back...

go take a look...

I rather see more people talke each other here.. is it due to not many member here or people are too busy??? just write anything and share info....

[prince01]

swing straight back and follow thru

I agree with keeping it simple. back swing staright back and extend follw thru after contact. I like your energy in inviting people to respond or to post. As other member mentioned about rambling... rambling is better than nothing. I can feel your love of the sport

As title stated waaaay too complicated.. i mean if you look swing and start bring science everything is so complicated and i love about this game and i love about studying swing.. but do most people want to learn that? of course not.. they just want to hit... so which one is important? starting point or ending point... to me ending point just before you contact the ball is such a key... have you tried to serve the way i suggested last post? you can actually hit the ball really well.. why? becuase there is nothing went wrong before you hit the ball... same as ground stroke... low to high can't go anything wrong...

that's what i focus on my students ending point... we want to have federer's forehand, we want sampras serve.... but it is just way too confusing.. well.. i was just studying federe's swing and del potro's swing.. did you know the big different? federer put racket up really quick.. so if you see federe's swing from the behind his arm doesn't really go forward after the contact his elborw is center and his racket make a very fast circle and that's how he hits the top spin.. whereas del potro got big swing..more forward and up.. so i can see his racket from rear view... but federe's can't see much of arm from rear view.. only can see the portion of racket...

Anyway... i don't want to go off truck... simple better.. through the ball before you learn this or tweat this and that...it can kill your game.. if you keep changing thing around you don't get anything right.. especially we can't get 100% of their movement from just looking video.. there are more to it..
well, lucky for federer and sampras.. it came more or less natural to them....

i am very sure some must have taught how to do it though....

for us... lean how to hit the ball clean is first step.. forget about make fancy about take back and etc.. i see many people at the park has very weird take back and comes back weird.. they got such a long loop and end up hitting down on the ball.. oh boy.. same as serve.. actually serve is worse... they got huge take back and looks just so weird.. i like teaching my student serve just like hitting overhead.. start half way and make sure learn the most important part of the movement of the swing and 100% of pros do the same..which is just before they hit the ball.. their racket face is pointing to the side fence.. and protante when you make contact.. i teach this.. and i have to .. i believe this is the correct way..... did you know there are several actually 2 pro i know hit the serve like overhead.. Maruano Puete french open finalist.. start the racket like overhead... and Johanssen.. women.. i forget first name she hits like overhead.. well... to me anything used in pro level is pro level swing and it can be done... mr. roddick has biggest serve in history and one of the shortest swing in tour....

to me compact simple is the best.. work on it instead of get sampras' service motion... i mean i can see few players have copied sampras' serve.. Federer, and Talyer Dent... well, from what i see.. it isn't the same.. well, arm part is kind of similar but sampras' rotation and delivery and flexibility is just incredible... just like feder forehand just beautiful to watch.... on the other hand there are several people who copied roddick serve and came similar.. Mofiles, Ginepri, Tsonga.. they more or less similar to roddick's serve...

I like to teach the method which works for 100% of people... has to have simple approach and people can develop from there... and i am still big believer of having long swing doesn't mean you increase the pace... to me have perfect technique before you make contact is the key....

any thoughts? people write anything....

[prince01]

service, pronation

Chokomakashi, thanks for the reply to my questions.

Can you explain pronation in service in simple terms. thank you.