Interactive Forum February 2010: Roger Federer Serve - High Speed

[zakito]

wonderful watching this super slow motion serve!

[ejkantor]

Maybe the wrong serve

First and foremost, I'd like to say how much I love this site and how much I think John and your staff do and amazing job. I just think that this serve may not be an ace out wide. I think it may be a kicker up the "T". Why? Two reasons besides the contact on the ball alone. First, Watch his eyes. He isn't following a ball going wide, they seem to be staying pretty much straight out. Second, if you stay to the end of the serve motion, he is pushing off his left leg to move to his right to react to a shot. Does anyone else see these things? But, it is amazing video. I've confirmed many of my beliefs about the game as well as corrected a lot of my teachings because of this site. Thank you so much for everything you do.

[bottle]

A Very Basic Change in Service Along with the Video Advancement

One of the many interesting aspects of this is that in the first sequence of "True Serves," February issue also, Roger Federer is serving the other way. Well, he was younger.

But is that the answer? Or does he have a cupboard full of different serves just as he has a variety of forehands?

His serving has been so consistent that I would guess not, that what we are witnessing is a very basic change applied to four or five shots. And who says that great players don't change their game?

I don't know. I'm only guessing. I haven't done the research.

[johnyandell]

Interesting about the placement. I went and actually looked at the wide shot from our patterns filming.

The truth is that it is a second serve in the ad court kicked to the backhand. Not an ace. Djokovic missed the return.

We'll put up the actual pattern shot soon.

[advantageu]

Federer Super Slow-mo Clip

John this gets better all the time, I use your clips to get a message to players at all levels from our Elite to Adult competition players. The ability of your clips to be controlled to a point that we can show them exactly what they need to think about is great.

I have one question, are you able to give us clips that can be read in dartfish so I can break down the segments more? This would be a great asset I am sure to many coaches.

John as always great work, love your passion for Tennis.

[johnyandell]

The answer is yes! Read the articles on Using the Resources of Tennisplayer in Teaching Systems, esp. part 2. You can use QT Pro to convert the QT to avi files that Dartfish can recognize.

[johnyandell]

Pattern

So here is the actual second serve point that goes with our high speed clip!

Pattern:

[bottle]

A lot of people just got all shook up. That's good.

Another day of playing with this-- what fun. I have the first sequence going on my screen even while I'm at the court. First thing today will be to try and change a habit, to pre-load upper arm at a later point, as delayed elbow flies up.
Will it work? Have no idea, just want to find out.

[ejkantor]

kicker!!!

Ok, so it wasn't up the "T". But I just was pretty sure it was a kicker by the way the contact was made, the way is eye's tracked the ball, and by how his leg drove down to react to a shot. Thanks for confirming my thoughts. Just wish I was also right about going down the "T". Can't be right all the time!!! That was the tough part because seeing a small part of a line at the end of the clip. In any case, thanks again for the additional clip so quickly. Your site has made me a better coach. Thanks.

[bottle]

The Substance in the New Form

Hopefully, I will say just one more thing here before I return to my cave, "A New Year's Serve." If you think this serve-- the SUBSTANCE presented in the new form-- is as provocative and different from the serve YOU probably use every day, and as different from Roger's old serves, too, then consider this:

Good rhythm and the most useful count possible for practicing it are essential. When you go from the initial videos in this thread to the "patterns" video that's now up, you get to see the same serve in natural time.

Here's the rhythm for it and the count: 1-2-3 . Nothing else makes sense.

[bottle]

No, but there might be a gender problem. Maybe one or two of the kittens still haven't come out.

[bottle]

You've got to hand it to Rosheem. He wanted a second serve kicker out wide
and...

[rosheem]

I am so glad this was cleared up. I was really wondering how this serve could have been out wide to the deuce court. Something just did not seem to add up. I couldn't figure out how the scoreboard in the ad side corner behind him could have possibly made it into the frame if this serve was coming from the deuce side.

I also was wondering, "what the hell is he looking at" in the follow through. The way his eyes are tracking simply do not match up with a serve out wide to the deuce side. Nice catch from ejkantor.

Love the ability to pair the slow-mo with the real-speed. The rhythm can get lost in the details when you start getting into the slow-motion stuff. I'm writing this while watching a classic match between Rusedski and Courier. I've only seen Rusedski in the slow motion clips here on the site. Watching him serve in real-time is a WHOLE different story.

That's why I want to go to Indian Wells.

[bottle]

Wow. Thanks for reinforcing the proposal of slow motion being shown with natural speed side by side. Wish I could go to Indian Wells, too.

Since everything in these films is so clear by now, just where on the ball does Roger make contact? Not where I've read in any book for a kicker.

But for our answer, patient reader, what language shall we use? Geography, clown face or solid geometry?

Which hemisphere, eyebrow or quadrant?

Watch the first video again. Trust your own eyes.

What did you say? Say it again. That's right. You got it.

[zdenekcernoch]

John, this is amazing. the last time I saw this super slow mo this clear was when I was working with Vic Braden. We were using film that shot at 30,000 frames per second. Actually another Jon (john zimmerman) was doing the high seed filming at the time.
Absolutley amazing..Keep up the great work.


Alec

according to my info(not from Mr.Braden but from his co workers...) it wa 10 000 frames/sec...wich is amazing speed...!!!!