Interesting Links

[gzhpcu]

Here's an old Groucho Marx "You Bet Your Life Show" with Pancho Gonzales who takes some jabs at Jack Kramer.... Pancho shows up around 15 minutes into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPuC6NzAL4

[tennis_chiro]

Lateral pinpoint

Here's an old Groucho Marx "You Bet Your Life Show" with Pancho Gonzales who takes some jabs at Jack Kramer.... Pancho shows up around 15 minutes into the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPuC6NzAL4

Interesting seeing Pancho in that setting. It must have been early 50's. But the clip that came up first was Pancho and Rosewall. The last serve of Pancho in that clip shows a very clear lateral pinpoint stance on his serve. Now I feel a lot better about the clip I have up from my serve in 1985!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y6Tu5HxU_o

Pancho's serve at 1:09 of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPuC6NzAL4

don

[johnyandell]

Pancho didn't seem too comfortable, and Groucho couldn't pronounce his name...not exactly memorable television...

[gzhpcu]

Ooops.... I had posted the wrong link....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaRkgbK34dA

[don_budge]

Prince Howitzer...and the GOAT Richard Gonzales

Now I feel a lot better about the clip I have up from my serve in 1985!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Y6Tu5HxU_o

Pancho's serve at 1:09 of this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkPuC6NzAL4

don

It looks like you are using a Prince Graphite...perhaps the 110 model. Excellent motion...but don't get sucked into the illusion of comparing what he was doing with the racquet he was playing with and your Prince Howitzer...tennischiro.

I love the hand on the shoulder at the conclusion of the match...after the traditional handshake. No curtain calls. No nonsense. Mr. Tennis.

[don_budge]

Demeanor...away from the court. Gonzales...GOAT

Pancho didn't seem too comfortable, and Groucho couldn't pronounce his name...not exactly memorable television...

Real handsome. Like a big cat..even away from the court. Lady Killer. He looks relaxed and ultimately confident. Humble and even sweet to his little partner from Timbuckto, Kansas. Sort of destroys the illusion of the mean and surly Mexican.

His comment about Jack Kramer was insidiously humorous. Groucho comments that Kramer is getting fat and Gonzales responds in more ways than one. He was not referring to his hat size...he was referring to the size of his wallet.

Wonderful snippet of old time television.

[tennis_chiro]

Head Director

It looks like you are using a Prince Graphite...perhaps the 110 model. Excellent motion...but don't get sucked into the illusion of comparing what he was doing with the racquet he was playing with and your Prince Howitzer...tennischiro.

...

Actually, it was a Head Director, probably same model I won my gold ball with a year earlier. A little over 100 sq. in. i played with Prince for a couple of months when they first came out; had to learn to serve well above the sweetspot. I played most of my best tennis with the T2000 to T5000, about 70 sq. in., but I played my only tour level matches in WCT Munich 1975 with a Wilson Pro Staff - wood! Played Hewitt and McMillan in the first round of doubles; held 4 of 5 times losing 6-2, 7-5 and serving 12 aces in 5 games with that stick!

My comparison was meant to be to the footwork on Pancho's serve.

don

[stotty]

Actually, it was a Head Director, probably same model I won my gold ball with a year earlier. A little over 100 sq. in. i played with Prince for a couple of months when they first came out; had to learn to serve well above the sweetspot. I played most of my best tennis with the T2000 to T5000, about 70 sq. in., but I played my only tour level matches in WCT Munich 1975 with a Wilson Pro Staff - wood! Played Hewitt and McMillan in the first round of doubles; held 4 of 5 times losing 6-2, 7-5 and serving 12 aces in 5 games with that stick!

My comparison was meant to be to the footwork on Pancho's serve.

don

I really like your motion. It's really fluid and relaxed. And, yes, the lateral pinpoint is similar to Gonzales. But many of us used the lateral pinpoint stance back then. Why is that? I was never taught it. Did we just subconsciously learn it from watching the tour players of the day? Was it better for serve and volleying?

[gzhpcu]

I thought these videos were neat...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ej5...FHRTNUf9B85K0A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSF5...B85K0A&index=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ej5...FHRTNUf9B85K0A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSF5...B85K0A&index=1

[tennis_chiro]

Practicing the serve with the move forward

I really like your motion. It's really fluid and relaxed. And, yes, the lateral pinpoint is similar to Gonzales. But many of us used the lateral pinpoint stance back then. Why is that? I was never taught it. Did we just subconsciously learn it from watching the tour players of the day? Was it better for serve and volleying?

We'd have to look at a lot of video to really see a pattern, but I know we practiced differently. Certainly, I learned to serve by hitting ball after ball after ball..., but as I became a better player I still practiced my serve, but I put a lot of effort in to practicing how far I could get in two steps after the serve. I'm sure I haven't seen anyone practice like that in at least 20 years. That move forward was part of the service motion. Almost incomprehensible today! Don't know, but I would think I would have hit a lot higher percentage of first serves in if all I had to do was hit it and recover for the return instead of hustling to the service line. And there are no records, but I'm sure I was making more than 3 out of 5 first serves.

don

[gzhpcu]

don, I have been looking at some of your YouTube instruction videos on the serve: very good! Never saw a tennis pro over here giving that level of quality instruction on the serve. Shame you aren't over here...

[klacr]

No doubt Don is a great teacher.

Great video on the volleys here along with fellow subscriber and friend Ed Weiss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niyoHQogV_w

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Going forwards...with the Service Motion

We'd have to look at a lot of video to really see a pattern, but I know we practiced differently. Certainly, I learned to serve by hitting ball after ball after ball..., but as I became a better player I still practiced my serve, but I put a lot of effort in to practicing how far I could get in two steps after the serve. I'm sure I haven't seen anyone practice like that in at least 20 years. That move forward was part of the service motion. Almost incomprehensible today! Don't know, but I would think I would have hit a lot higher percentage of first serves in if all I had to do was hit it and recover for the return instead of hustling to the service line. And there are no records, but I'm sure I was making more than 3 out of 5 first serves.

don

Well it is a huge difference between the service motions of the past and those of today. Studying the classic players of the past it is fairly simple to observe that the motion wasn't designed to produce only speed. It was just as important to generate very accurate placement and spin off of the very same motion. By incorporating the momentum of the forwards movement into the court the serve was a cerebral exercise as well...and as tennis_chiro points out maximizing the distance traveled into the court was paramount. Therefore a well placed serve with big kick at 75% speed allowed you to move in just a bit more. Advantage server.

The biggest common criticism that I would levy at the modern service motions is that they are designed too much on the speed principle. Too much talk of MPH. Smash the serve and retreat back behind the baseline is the current mode of operation. One of my first posts here on this forum was a letter that I wrote to Robin Söderling's father advising him that it would be prudent to retool his high tossing power generating motion to something more along the lines of Richard Gonzales' motion (and tennis_chiro's) in order to maximize his options.

This lack of forward momentum after the service motion is also probably a big reason for the lack of serve and volley in the game today. Granted there are some factors that have been engineered into the game that discourage this sort of play but isn't it also true that those very same factors might be utilized to gain the advantage in service as well if they were combined with the aforementioned forward momentum. I am not so certain that it could not be done...but here is the question of coaching once again. Hijacked into strong forehand grip, two hand backhand and powerful service motion with no regard for tactics or thoughtfulness.

My coach used to stress upwards of 70% first serves in for singles and 90% for doubles. But who plays doubles anymore. Doubles was also a great training ground for the serve too with the aforementioned stressing of high percentage plus the additional requirement of the mandatory move forwards to the net on first and second serves. I think this is where I made my biggest progress with the art of serve and volley...in doubles the risk isn't so high in losing as it is in singles. It was a zone where the pressure was perhaps not so heavy and the rewards were large. I always played doubles in tournaments.

This where that sliding motion with the back foot may have came into play...what are you guys calling it now? The lateral pinpoint?

[klacr]

Roger Federer most valuable athlete in the world.

Sharapova and Li Na also in top 10.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/News/Ten...e-Athlete.aspx

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[giancarlo]

The One-Handed Backhand Has All but Disappeared

Hello from NYC--

If you haven't already seen this sweet interactive piece from the NY Times, please take a look.

All the best,
gc

http://nyti.ms/1AIEyRs