Topspin Trainer

[uspta2712824457]

Guys,

Just saw this commercial for this topspin trainer. Ken Flach endorses this. I know all you guys will have strong opinions on this stuff. Would love to hear them. Let er rip!

http://www.tennismusclememory.com/

[chuck62]

It looks like it would provide a good windshield wiper finish, but looks like it would just provide a glancing blow on the ball. Seems like if you hit through the ball with some extension you would break the thing in two.

[uspta2712824457]

You are right. Having the idea of brushing up the ball is a good one. However, someone with good racquet head speed that has the ability to drive through, extend and penetrate the court will do some damage to the $119.00 plastic tower with colored balls in it.

[uspta990770809]

Thoughts from Ken Flach

I contacted Ken on Facebook when I saw the post here. Meant to post the response sooner. Here's the exchange:

Don to Ken:
Looked at your memory board site today. I would love it if I thought it would develop the forehand you demonstrate when you drop and hit the ball in those videos.What's missing is the 5 to 10 inches the racket goes through the hitting zone as you hit through the ball. Nevertheless, it is definitely a worthwhile idea. I'm just nuts about learning to hit through the ball before you start to emphasize the wiper.

Ken back to Don:
Hey Don, to hit is a natural instinct, we can all hit from birth. So it is imperative that we teach students to spin the ball asap in the learning process. Letting them hit thru the ball will lead to all kinds of problems down the road in their development. It is the great MISCONCEPTION in the game of tennis today that a player must "hit through the ball" in the hitting zone. If you do that the ball leaves with little or no spin which is only worthwhile on a ball above the tape. Relying on gravity to bring your shots down only allows you to hit the ball at minimal speed due to the fact that the baseline is at groundlevel and the net is 3 ft high. The only time you can "spin" the ball is when the ball is on your strings, therefore you need a lot more "up" than "through" to create the necessary rpm's. Check out hi-techtennis.com and you will see that I am correct. Hope all is well with you, Ken

Don finally to Ken:
I don't think so, but I'll look at hi-techtennis.com. And see what response I can get on tennisplayer.net as well. I'm going to quote you there. But I'm too tired right now. All the best, Don

I've been a little busy and haven't checked out hi-techtennis.com yet, but I thought you might be interested in Ken's input.

don

[uspta990770809]

Pictures on Hi-Tech

I'm not a member of Jeff Counts site,but the pictures on the cover page of the site showing Nalbandian's wiper clearly show the racket moving forward almost a foot from 3 o'clock to 12 o'clock on the wiper. He would disintegrate that board!

don

[uspta2712824457]

hi-tech tennis topspin trainer.

Thanks Don. I appreciate it. The training board may just be vaporized the way some guys hit it. It's great you were able to speak to Ken about it. I appreciate your time. The idea of this training device is a genuine one, and I like the idea. I'm just not sold on the extreme windshield wiper angle it forces. perhaps there is an adjustment where you can change the angle of the board so it is not such an extreme vertical angle.

it is what it is. Glad it peak some interest.

[uspta990770809]

severity of slope of swing is real

Thanks Don. I appreciate it. The training board may just be vaporized the way some guys hit it. It's great you were able to speak to Ken about it. I appreciate your time. The idea of this training device is a genuine one, and I like the idea. I'm just not sold on the extreme windshield wiper angle it forces. perhaps there is an adjustment where you can change the angle of the board so it is not such an extreme vertical angle.

it is what it is. Glad it peak some interest.

the severity of the angle is not the problem. That's a reality. But the difference with what people do trying to imitate the pros and what they actually do is clearly shown by the pictures of Nalbandian's forehand on the introductory page of Jeff's site. I had a chance to look a little further and I like what he has to say. Now I have to go back and read his articles on this site before I go further. But back to "severity" Look at Nalbandian's graphic and you can see it is that steep, but at the same time, the racket is moving forward through the hitting zone. Those memory boards on a six inch spring loaded sled would be ideal.

[uspta2712824457]

Don,

Thank you for clarifying. I have seen the Nalbandian pictures and do agree. My fault for being a little too vague with my wording in a previous post. I should be a little more careful in my explanations in the future. Maybe I can blame it on all the turkey I had for the holiday. It is a unique look at what happens during the swing and a spring loaded slope would be a nice touch.

[nokomis]

Although I have not tried the slanted board contraption, it seems to me that it has value. As someone said, and I believe I said the same thing on another site, "it is what it is". I don't think I've ever seen a training device that was absolutely realistic - they are designed to provide a visual/physical aid so the player better understands the concept of the stroke.

I've heard so much about how your going to ruin racquets, slope is not realistic, too expensive, and so forth. Its not like a player is going to be hitting this board thousands of times, day after day. Use an old racquet or buy one at GW or a garage sale for a buck or two if your so worried about your expensive sticks.

To be fair about this, this guy has come up with something that many of us have thought about for years. We have harped upon this upward motion to create top over and over - thousands of times. Give this guy his due and realize he might have come up with something we've just dreamed about.

[uspta2712824457]

Nokomis,

You are correct in your argument. This is an idea designed to aid in the physical/visual component of the stroke. Also, the price is not so much a concern, as I believe its the marketing of the product that seems a bit campy. Wearing your Olympic gold medal while giving a demonstration is an awkward sight. I happen to know Ken Flach and have spoken to him numerous times through the years. I appreciate his dedication and his passion for this product. I'm glad this post was able to elicit some debate and opinions on this teaching tool. I wish Mr. Flach the best of luck with this creation. For the right student, at the right time, at the right price, in the hands of the right teacher it will be an invaluable tool.

[nokomis]

Yes, I agree with you.

[florian80]

topspin board

With all the amazing high speed footage that is on this site i am surprised people actually think this tool could work.
Just look at the forehands in the promotional video on the website and look at the pro forehands...they look nothing alike. teaching young kids to hit the ball like this is disastrous in my opinion. yes the pros use a lot of windshield wiper forehands but they still hit way through the ball on almost all shots. as steep as this thing is the ball will not go anywhere if you hit it like that unless you are a male pro player and the ball is coming at you already with incredible speed and spin. if you teach any good female junior player to hit like this, i think her opponents will just tee off on those shots by hitting through the ball.
hitting the forehand the way he demonstrates on the board is not what made ken flach successful on the tennis court i would think.


just my thoughts.

cheers

florian

[chuck62]

I agree with Forian. If you look at the footage of a guy like Del Potro (who has probably the biggest forehand in tennis right now) his swing path on his attacking shots would shatter that board. The whole idea of a steep and exaggerated windshield wiper seems to go against the current trend of many of the top pros to start hitting through the ball more. Interesting that Flach seems to think that learning to spin the ball first is more important whereas a guy like Landsdorp is adamant about learning to hit through the ball first. Personally I would rather stick with Landsdorp who coached Sampras, Sharapova, and Davenport as opposed to Flach who coached who ?

[10splayer]

I agree with Forian. If you look at the footage of a guy like Del Potro (who has probably the biggest forehand in tennis right now) his swing path on his attacking shots would shatter that board. The whole idea of a steep and exaggerated windshield wiper seems to go against the current trend of many of the top pros to start hitting through the ball more. Interesting that Flach seems to think that learning to spin the ball first is more important whereas a guy like Landsdorp is adamant about learning to hit through the ball first. Personally I would rather stick with Landsdorp who coached Sampras, Sharapova, and Davenport as opposed to Flach who coached who ?

This is such a good observation. I have found that is so easy to teach a kid to turn the ball over (up and across the ball) after they first learn to move through the ball. The reverse progression is much harder, especially with stronger grips.

[uspta2712824457]

Topspin forehand issues.

Guys,

Great points and observations. I love the participation. We can only quench our thirst for knowledge of this great game by sharing our thoughts and opinions.

Personally, with my game style, I would have a hard time producing this extreme low to high wiper motion that this trainer promotes. I'm a tall guy (6ft 5in.) and a "flat" ball hitter relative to many of my peers much like del Potro is on tour.
(Relax: I am not saying I hit my FH exactly like del Potro or that I am anywhere close to his level, just saying there are similarities I can spot in the technical componets)

My swing path goes through the ball, much more than up. I agree with Lansdorp on his belief to learn this skill first. I have always driven through the ball due to the environment I learned under. Unfortunately, as I became obsessed with driving through the ball and having a great extension, I neglected the spin component to the detriment of my FH that I still struggle with from time to time. Much like many things in life, there has to be some balance. Not too much through, not too much up.