Interactive Forum: Sep-Oct 2009: Melanie Oudin Footwork

[johnyandell]

When we started filming at the Easter Bowl 3 years ago, we wanted to start creating a video data base for American junior tennis, something that had not been previously done. We also hoped that we would eventually capture future pro stars in their developmental years, something we felt could make a real contribution to how understanding how young players evolve and when.

It appears we've got the first example of that with the emergence of Melanie Oudin. Check out these two amazing points here from her win in the Easter Bowl Girls' 18s in 2008. Check out her impeccable technique developed by her long time coach Brian DeVillers, and especially her amazing footwork. It may be the best example of fast, constantly adjusting small steps I ever seen. But what do you guys think?

Finally check out Brian's prescient interview that same year on the state of American junior tennis (http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...splayer440.mov)

Melanie Oudin: Footwork



Melanie Oudin: Footwork

[johnyandell]

Quicktime Versions

Melanie Oudin: Footwork



Melanie Oudin: Footwork

[tommyt]

Oudin takes many more steps in between shots than any other pro. Her side steps have a short stride so there are many more of them. I went back to the stroke archive section and all those great players, from Sampras to Agassi to Henin to Federer to Nadal don't use that type of footwork. I've noticed many young juniors starting to use "Oudin's" type of footwork... I'm trying to figure out if all those steps are necessary.?

[uspta146749877]

Footwork related issues

Oudin takes many more steps in between shots than any other pro. Her side steps have a short stride so there are many more of them. I went back to the stroke archive section and all those great players, from Sampras to Agassi to Henin to Federer to Nadal don't use that type of footwork. I've noticed many young juniors starting to use "Oudin's" type of footwork... I'm trying to figure out if all those steps are necessary.?

See as well

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1423

post #3 for related issues like a size of a stride

[uspta990770809]

How many steps

Clearly, Melanie takes a lot of steps. I'm reminded of the philosophy put forward at a number of high performance seminars, I think courtesy of David Porter (not sure, although I am sure he advocated it), that you could correlate the level of a player with the number of steps taken between shots. 3.0 player - few steps. Good junior - more steps. College player - more steps. Tour pro - more steps still.

Then we have the clear difference between Agassi and Federer. Agassi takes more steps to the ball. Both have great footwork. But when they recover, I think you will find that they all take less steps than Melanie in coming out of a corner and recovering balance before the next shot. She has to improve that. I try to teach my players not to do the "bunny hop", but to start their recovery out of a corner with a crossover step. Always a struggle at first and then suddenly they are saving a lot of energy. (I don't know what Bailey says about this.)

You have to remember these pictures are from 2 1/2 years ago at Easter Bowl. Certainly, if she keeps this footwork up, she's going to get very strong hips and end up burning off a little of that baby fat she's carrying around. She uses short steps when she has to to set up for the ball and she runs the court very well. I think she will naturally streamline it due to the pressure she is under. But the recovery bad habit will persist unless it is addressed directly. It may already have been addressed!

I'd also be concerned about the way she moves into the ball. I think she holds back her commitment to the front side a little too much. Take a look at a few of Agassi's center neutral forehands where he gets his feet set up for comparison. He gets more weight to the left side and I think she may need that to get more sting on her shots.

Certainly, to succeed even to the level she achieved at the Open this year, she will have to streamline her footwork and make it more efficient. She can't afford to give anything up at her size. She has to be almost perfect in technique or at least perfectly efficient in what she does. Competition will force her to adapt or she will fail to maintain that level of success.

don

[uspta990770809]

Just a year and a half ago

Correction: the clips are from Easter Bowl 2008

[airforce1]

Oudin takes many more steps in between shots than any other pro.

I've noticed many young juniors starting to use "Oudin's" type of footwork... I'm trying to figure out if all those steps are necessary.?

IMO they are not.

[tommyt]

Clearly, Melanie takes a lot of steps. I'm reminded of the philosophy put forward at a number of high performance seminars, I think courtesy of David Porter (not sure, although I am sure he advocated it), that you could correlate the level of a player with the number of steps taken between shots. 3.0 player - few steps. Good junior - more steps. College player - more steps. Tour pro - more steps still.

Then we have the clear difference between Agassi and Federer. Agassi takes more steps to the ball. Both have great footwork. But when they recover, I think you will find that they all take less steps than Melanie in coming out of a corner and recovering balance before the next shot. She has to improve that. I try to teach my players not to do the "bunny hop", but to start their recovery out of a corner with a crossover step. Always a struggle at first and then suddenly they are saving a lot of energy. (I don't know what Bailey says about this.)

You have to remember these pictures are from 2 1/2 years ago at Easter Bowl. Certainly, if she keeps this footwork up, she's going to get very strong hips and end up burning off a little of that baby fat she's carrying around. She uses short steps when she has to to set up for the ball and she runs the court very well. I think she will naturally streamline it due to the pressure she is under. But the recovery bad habit will persist unless it is addressed directly. It may already have been addressed!

I'd also be concerned about the way she moves into the ball. I think she holds back her commitment to the front side a little too much. Take a look at a few of Agassi's center neutral forehands where he gets his feet set up for comparison. He gets more weight to the left side and I think she may need that to get more sting on her shots.

Certainly, to succeed even to the level she achieved at the Open this year, she will have to streamline her footwork and make it more efficient. She can't afford to give anything up at her size. She has to be almost perfect in technique or at least perfectly efficient in what she does. Competition will force her to adapt or she will fail to maintain that level of success.

don

It seems, at times, that her base, mostly on the forehand side, isn't big enough...

[uspta146749877]

Let us clarify couple of things

Clearly, Melanie takes a lot of steps. I'm reminded of the philosophy put forward at a number of high performance seminars, I think courtesy of David Porter (not sure, although I am sure he advocated it), that you could correlate the level of a player with the number of steps taken between shots. 3.0 player - few steps. Good junior - more steps. College player - more steps. Tour pro - more steps still.

Then we have the clear difference between Agassi and Federer. Agassi takes more steps to the ball. Both have great footwork. But when they recover, I think you will find that they all take less steps than Melanie in coming out of a corner and recovering balance before the next shot. She has to improve that. I try to teach my players not to do the "bunny hop", but to start their recovery out of a corner with a crossover step. Always a struggle at first and then suddenly they are saving a lot of energy. (I don't know what Bailey says about this.)

You have to remember these pictures are from 2 1/2 years ago at Easter Bowl. Certainly, if she keeps this footwork up, she's going to get very strong hips and end up burning off a little of that baby fat she's carrying around. She uses short steps when she has to to set up for the ball and she runs the court very well. I think she will naturally streamline it due to the pressure she is under. But the recovery bad habit will persist unless it is addressed directly. It may already have been addressed!

I'd also be concerned about the way she moves into the ball. I think she holds back her commitment to the front side a little too much. Take a look at a few of Agassi's center neutral forehands where he gets his feet set up for comparison. He gets more weight to the left side and I think she may need that to get more sting on her shots.

Certainly, to succeed even to the level she achieved at the Open this year, she will have to streamline her footwork and make it more efficient. She can't afford to give anything up at her size. She has to be almost perfect in technique or at least perfectly efficient in what she does. Competition will force her to adapt or she will fail to maintain that level of success.

don

Don,
let me clarify couple of issues:

#1in the case of Federer when he will get a CORNER ball
he gets to this BALL by THREE steps or TWO STEPS ( a running
forehand or backhand).
A corner ball is defined as a ball landing close to a crossing of a sideline
and a baseline.

My belief is that Federer footwork is optimized by
at least two of three principles:
1.get to a ball quick-minimalize number of steps
2.have a reasonable balance
3.have a reasonable platform/base to hit a forehand


Videos included in one of Bailey's articles

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/footwork/david_bailey/contact_move/power_move/power_move.html

support what I have said above for cases of Sampras and Ivanovic

#2 A footwork of Federer cannot be compared to a footwork by Moudin
mainly because of her stride

#3 I wish we could bring David Porter to this conversation.
I have sent an E-mail to David Porter asking him to paticipate
#4 Please elaborate on your statement
"I think she holds back her commitment to the front side a little too much"-
please refer to a video if possible

#5 The Bailey method minimilizes a number of steps DURING RECOVERY



regards


julian mielniczuk
uspta certified pro 27873 juliantennis@comcast.net

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[johnyandell]

To play devil's advocate her, I think her balance and alignment are great. Small steps around the ball cannot be a bad thing.

Whether overall she has to take so many is a good question. But again just to posit, her feet seem related to her intensity and we also know slow feet are related to getting tight. Is it possible that her feet kept her relaxed and helped here to make all those incredible pressure shots at the Open?

[uspta146749877]

To play devill's advocate

John,
I assume for a while that a little member of a forum is allowed to be a devil's advocate as well.

Let me quote carrerakent

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=1401

post #5

"as jason says, federer gets from center of court to alley in two to three steps. everyone else takes more. fewer steps are faster and more efficient".
What do you think about a quote above?
Is it relevant for this conversation?

Thank you,
julian

[johnyandell]

There is a difference between being on the dead run and adjusting your alignment around the ball. There are plenty of examples of Federer using combinations of larger steps and then smaller steps.

This isn't black and white. Or Roger versus everone else. Tons of other players mix it this way as well. Obviously the right distance to align is not going to always be one more big step away.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_wide/rf_fh_wide.html?RFFHWideOpenStanceCourtLevelFront3 .mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_wide/rf_fh_wide.html?RFFHWideOpenStanceCourtLevelFront3 .mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_inside_out/rf_fh_inside_out.html?RFFHInsideOutCourtLevelFront 2.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_inside_out/rf_fh_inside_out.html?RFFHInsideOutFront2.mov

[uspta761658040]

It does seem that Federer gets into position quite often with his large steps. (without having to take the little steps) Maybe thats the skill that makes him look so effortless.

[julian]

How 2 coach footwork?

It does seem that Federer gets into position quite often with his large steps. (without having to take the little steps) Maybe thats the skill that makes him look so effortless.

Hi,
a question is: which time/under which circumstances one coaches
a Federer model?A question became interesting because some coaches and players here were interested in the Bailey method

julian mielniczuk
uspta certified pro 27873 juliantennis@comcast.net

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[johnyandell]

Again, in my opinion there is not a "Federer" model if you mean taking only large steps. That is not what he does in all circumstances and I think you'll see the same thing for all the players. I'm assuming you actually looked at the clips and can see this. The Bailey Method is right there on the site under Footwork.