More Videos: Approach Shots, Forehands/Backhands

[10splayer]

Please see
"This weaker grip wouldn't matter, or matter as much"
in the article

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2009/andy_roddick_backhand/andy_roddick_backhand.html

As far as I understand the article referenced ABOVE implied that
forehand easterm grip is "weaker" than continental.
Am I confusing two different defintions of the word "weaker"?
Is it OK to bring John into this conversation?

Ya Julien, an eastern forehand grip would be weaker than continental for the right hand in a two handed backhand.

[airforce1]

Please see
"This weaker grip wouldn't matter, or matter as much"
in the article

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2009/andy_roddick_backhand/andy_roddick_backhand.html

As far as I understand the article referenced ABOVE implied that
forehand easterm grip is "weaker" than continental.
Am I confusing two different defintions of the word "weaker"?
Is it OK to bring John into this conversation?

Eastern Fh grip for bottom hand on 2hander would be weaker than continental, but not for a Fh.

[rosheem]

Weak vs. Weak

When I read the initial response by 10splayer, I had a feeling he was using "weak" to describe the difference between grips in terms of how the grip relates to racquet face angle. Similar to weak and strong grips on a golf club.

(Which is a fine discussion to have.)

However, my initial comments on grip strength were referring, more literally, to the strength of the grip...how hard the handle is being squeezed...mostly in a way to resist torsional instability and enhance the sense of leverage into the shot.

I find that I execute my volleys (and slices) in many different ways. The extremes are:

1. A "feathery" backhand slice where the spin comes from the speed of the racquet swiping lightly across the back of the ball. The arc on this ball is inconsistent and unpredictable. I can hit this shot with a very, very loose grip. It might kick sideways on the bounce, but it generally doesn't do much damage.

2. A heavy backhand slice where contact is more square with the ball. There is still underspin, but it is generated more from an opening up of the forearm (on the forehand) as the ball is driven through the line of the shot. Arc, height, and depth are more easily controlled. It seems that a tighter grip on the racquet is better for this shot.

I guess my point is that I feel like I volley better when I grip my racquet a bit tighter (this is all relative...my definition of tighter may be different than yours), when I keep it a bit closer into my body, and when I align the strings more square to the ball and emphasize driving through the line of the shot instead of applying spin.

[julian]

For 10splayer

Ya Julien, an eastern forehand grip would be weaker than continental for the right hand in a two handed backhand.

Thank you for mispelling my first name

[10splayer]

Thank you for mispelling my first name

Sorry Julian. I can assure you, it was not malicious.

[julian]

Extreme backhand grip

Ya Julien, an eastern forehand grip would be weaker than continental for the right hand in a two handed backhand.

Hi,
is an EXTREME backhand grip ( one hander) weaker than an eastern backhand grip?

julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net
Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

[10splayer]

Hi,
is an EXTREME backhand grip ( one hander) weaker than an eastern backhand grip?

julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net
Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

Julian,

No, I basically view the continental as the weakest grip for both forehand and backhand.

For forehand: From weakest to strongest. Continental, EF, Modified Eastern, SW, Western.

Backhand: From weakest to strongest. Continental, Eastern Backhand, Extreme Backhand.

[airforce1]

Hi,
is an EXTREME backhand grip ( one hander) weaker than an eastern backhand grip?

julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net
Courtside Tennis Club,Bedford,MA

is your point that beyond a certain point, it starts to become weaker again?

[julian]

Curiosity killed a cat

is your point that beyond a certain point, it starts to become weaker again?

I am NOT intelligent enough to raise a point

[uspta146749877]

An unusual case

Any exposure to teach a double handed backhand with a grip of a bottom hand b being an extreme backhand grip?i
A search via

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=49557666&pageid=r&_charset_=utf-8&bcd=%C3%B7&scs=1&query=extreme+backhand+grip&Find=Search&mode=ALL

does NOT help much

[oliensis]

I think Jim Courier is about as close as you'll find to an 2HBH w/ extreme BH grip w/ bottom hand:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/jimcourier/jc_backhand/jc_backhand.html?JCBHCenterFront.mov

Has its limitations, I think.

[julian]

Please talk about limitations

I think Jim Courier is about as close as you'll find to an 2HBH w/ extreme BH grip w/ bottom hand:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/jimcourier/jc_backhand/jc_backhand.html?JCBHCenterFront.mov

Has its limitations, I think.

Please talk about limitations.
If u prefer E-mail
my E-mail address is juliantennis@comcast.net
Thank you

PS I am guessing that you think about potential problems with:
1.return of serve
2.ease to generate topspin
3.A follow through looks strange

[uspta146749877]

For Oliensis

I think Jim Courier is about as close as you'll find to an 2HBH w/ extreme BH grip w/ bottom hand:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/jimcourier/jc_backhand/jc_backhand.html?JCBHCenterFront.mov

Has its limitations, I think.

See
"Agassi uses what I would call a continental backhand grip with his index knuckle on the second bevel, and part of his heel pad on the top bevel. This is paired with a conservative grip with the left hand, on old style eastern forehand that is even verging on a very mild continental. This appears to be the same grip structure as Kafelnikov and Safin. Courier on the other hand hit it with a stronger one handed backhand grip, with his index knuckle closer to the top of the frame. "
in

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/two_handed_backhand/2hd_bh_simplest_complex/2hd_bh_simplest_complex.html

It looks more like an eastern backhand grip

[oliensis]

Courier's extreme grip w/ right hand on 2HBH put his contact point WAY out in front, relative to other 2HBH, which meant, in my view, that he had the the limitations of both the 2HBH and the 1HBH imposed on him in terms of range.

Agassi mentions, in Brad Gilbert's book Winning Ugly, that Courier's backhand was a liability when on the move. Because Courier liked to camp himself toward the ad side of the court and hit inside out forehands, Agassi would go hard to the deuce side to Courier's forehand in order to open up the ad/backhand side and make Courier hit running backhands, which, because of Courier's grip, was not at the high level of the rest of Courier's game.

Because a 1HBH has more range built into it than the 2HBH, a one-hander with an extreme grip may suffer a step less impediment from the extreme grip.

To Courier's credit, his slice backhand was pretty good. I remember seeing him being blasted off the court by Safin in Davis Cup. But when C made an adjustment to slice everything to Safin, he did manage to break down Safin's game and win the match, in 5 very grueling sets, if I remember right. Of course Safin was only 18 at the time (or thereabouts)...so it must have been 11 years ago or so, or about 1998.

Further...I hit a one-hander, so I can't say this from experience, but it looks like the extreme right-hand grip on a righty's 2HBH may limit how much help can be given to the right hand by the left hand. It puts the contact point so far forward that the left shoulder looks like it gets a somewhat pinched mechanically before the contact point. But that's just a preliminary observation, not something I've studied a lot or can tell you from 1st hand experience.

To see what I mean by this last comment (about left shoulder being pinched), look at this link: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterFront.mov

especially at the last 2 frames prior to contact. The left shoulder looks like it has to get way inside, with the left elbow jammed way into the body in order to then pronate from a position of supination while hitting.

All FWIW.
Best,
ao

[julian]

Running backhand

Courier's extreme grip w/ right hand on 2HBH put his contact point WAY out in front, relative to other 2HBH, which meant, in my view, that he had the the limitations of both the 2HBH and the 1HBH imposed on him in terms of range.

Agassi mentions, in Brad Gilbert's book Winning Ugly, that Courier's backhand was a liability when on the move. Because Courier liked to camp himself toward the ad side of the court and hit inside out forehands, Agassi would go hard to the deuce side to Courier's forehand in order to open up the ad/backhand side and make Courier hit running backhands, which, because of Courier's grip, was not at the high level of the rest of Courier's game.

Because a 1HBH has more range built into it than the 2HBH, a one-hander with an extreme grip may suffer a step less impediment from the extreme grip.

To Courier's credit, his slice backhand was pretty good. I remember seeing him being blasted off the court by Safin in Davis Cup. But when C made an adjustment to slice everything to Safin, he did manage to break down Safin's game and win the match, in 5 very grueling sets, if I remember right. Of course Safin was only 18 at the time (or thereabouts)...so it must have been 11 years ago or so, or about 1998.

Further...I hit a one-hander, so I can't say this from experience, but it looks like the extreme right-hand grip on a righty's 2HBH may limit how much help can be given to the right hand by the left hand. It puts the contact point so far forward that the left shoulder looks like it gets a somewhat pinched mechanically before the contact point. But that's just a preliminary observation, not something I've studied a lot or can tell you from 1st hand experience.

To see what I mean by this last comment (about left shoulder being pinched), look at this link: http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...enterFront.mov

especially at the last 2 frames prior to contact. The left shoulder looks like it has to get way inside, with the left elbow jammed way into the body in order to then pronate from a position of supination while hitting.

All FWIW.
Best,
ao

How to teach a running backhand is a difficult subject for me