For Don

[uspta146749877]

Do u know
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...ower_move.html ?
Any comments?


julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

[uspta990770809]

Bailey's footwork system

It is very interesting stuff. On the surface it looks really great and like every HP player is going to have to master all of these steps. On the other hand, it is a lot of work to develop strategies for what to do when you don't get into proper position in the first place. I think 90 to 95% of the time, my players are in trouble because they were late getting into position to hit the ball the way they were capable of hitting it. I'm not sure I want to give them a strategy and footwork pattern to justify them getting there late. If a player has trouble developing defensive footwork skills, something like Bailey's method makes a lot of sense. But I don't think players work enough on getting into great position to hit the ball in the first place.

Even at the top level, it is amazing how set these players get to hit the ball. Now against JMdP, Roger was hitting a lot of balls on the run and he couldn't control the point like he usually does. Even Rafa, who runs down more balls than almost anyone, is amazingly set when he actually hits the ball except in the most extreme circumstances.

I think we should be working harder to get players to explode quicker and more effectively in their first steps so they don't have to run wider than their shot and are set to load and fire on the majority of their shots.

But as I said, the stuff looks really interesting. I haven't studied it enough. But I want to let the talented players figure their natural footwork out on their own, guided by an awareness of the relationship of the racket head to the ball as they move towards the shot. I wonder if the players that need to be shown exactly what to do in these alternate situations should even be trying anything but a totally defensive shot in the situation.

What experience do other pros have working with the Bailey Method?

don

[uspta146749877]

Bailey's footwork system

It is very interesting stuff. On the surface it looks really great and like every HP player is going to have to master all of these steps. On the other hand, it is a lot of work to develop strategies for what to do when you don't get into proper position in the first place. I think 90 to 95% of the time, my players are in trouble because they were late getting into position to hit the ball the way they were capable of hitting it. I'm not sure I want to give them a strategy and footwork pattern to justify them getting there late. If a player has trouble developing defensive footwork skills, something like Bailey's method makes a lot of sense. But I don't think players work enough on getting into great position to hit the ball in the first place.

Even at the top level, it is amazing how set these players get to hit the ball. Now against JMdP, Roger was hitting a lot of balls on the run and he couldn't control the point like he usually does. Even Rafa, who runs down more balls than almost anyone, is amazingly set when he actually hits the ball except in the most extreme circumstances.

I think we should be working harder to get players to explode quicker and more effectively in their first steps so they don't have to run wider than their shot and are set to load and fire on the majority of their shots.

But as I said, the stuff looks really interesting. I haven't studied it enough. But I want to let the talented players figure their natural footwork out on their own, guided by an awareness of the relationship of the racket head to the ball as they move towards the shot. I wonder if the players that need to be shown exactly what to do in these alternate situations should even be trying anything but a totally defensive shot in the situation.

What experience do other pros have working with the Bailey Method?

don

Don,
I have a very positive experience with high performance juniors.
I will try to prepare for you a list of questions juniors are asking
about footwork and transition from defense to offence.
Some of them (mainly my answers) are really funny so you may die of laughter

Q: Coach Julian,I am 5 feet 6 inches tall.
I am parking at a hash mark.
My opponent hit a ball landing at a corner of a court
(just inside of crossing of a baseline and a sideline).
How do I get there and how many steps should I use to intercept a ball
successfully?

A( by Julian): Do you have another question?

Don,
you may see that a question has some merit.

[uspta990770809]

Use Inate!

Don,
I have a very positive experience with high performance juniors.
I will try to prepare for you a list of questions juniors are asking
about footwork and transition from defense to offence.
Some of them (mainly my answers) are really funny so you may die of laughter

Q: Coach Julian,I am 5 feet 6 inches tall.
I am parking at a hash mark.
My opponent hit a ball landing at a corner of a court
(just inside of crossing of a baseline and a sideline).
How do I get there and how many steps should I use to intercept a ball
successfully?

A( by Julian): Do you have another question?

Don,
you may see that a question has some merit.

I think I preferred 10splayer's response to my post. But I take it you are serious.

The short answer is "As few steps as you can, but as many as you need!" Yeah, when I get an answer like that from one of my students, I ask them if they are considering a career in politics. If you ask your 5' 6" student (we'll call him "Speedy" from now on.) to make the move to that ball without running beyond it, he won't be able to do it. Set up the shot with a machine (or a really good feeder). I'm assuming there is enough time to get to the shot, plant and hit without going beyond it. (Obviously, just one possibility of the way you might play a ball in the corner running from the center mark (hashmark?)) At least this version of the shot and the footwork would be a good place to start. Speedy probably won't be able to do this, so we go through a progression. First, put the racket down and run over to the ball and catch it with your right hand (assuming Speedy is a righty), without taking a step beyond the ball. When Speedy has trouble doing this, I put a line of balls down on the court just beyond the area he has to run to (kind of the "don't fall off the end of the earth" strategy). If Speedy is the kind that will overun the ball and break an ankle, use a flat target line on the court. Speedy has to catch the ball and plant the right foot as the outside foot. Second, Speedy has to do the same thing with the racket face, that is run over to the ball and catch it on the strings, literally. He should be able to do this. He shouldn't take a backswing or worry about a tennis stroke; just get the face of the racket behind the ball. His mind will automatically calculate where he has to go to catch the ball, unless he did not have normal development of his coordination as he grew up. He will note that he is doing this without running off the "edge of the world". The final step would be to now try to run the racket over behind the ball, plant and hit the shot without going off the "end of the world". He should do this as quietly and efficiently as possible. Once he has identified the pattern with a few easy shots, you can start to speed up the feed and require some real speed.

This may be just one of the15 movement patterns identified in the Bailey method (I need to study those articles a lot more), but I think each individual has his own way of doing this. I want to get them to do it with a "stab step" to the right with the right foot, a cross-over step with the left foot as they spring off the right and a jump off the left to land and plant on the right foot and load to hit the ball, with or without a final step with the left. Someone Speedy's size may need another skip or step. JMdP might be able to do it with even less. Speedy'll figure that out with the right side of his brain if we can get him out of his own way. The key is to focus on getting the racket behind the contact pointj/oncoming ball. (Is this what CK means by getting behind the contact point?)

Some would say this is a gross oversimplification of footwork. I know a lot more is involved and perhaps breaking down movement in a method like Bailey's could really help, but how did Federer master those 15 moves. We chiropractors like to talk about "Inate", the body's inate ability to heal itself if you can get the interference out of the way so the message can get past blockages in the nervous system (subluxations) and command the cell with it's perfect knowledge. (Gross oversimplification of chiropractic theory, but that's the essential classic theory.) By the same token with movement, if you get the left brain out of the way, the body can figure out on its own how to move to that shot appropriately.

Hope that gives you a different answer to those questions, Julian!

[uspta146749877]

For Don about footwork

Don,
couple of loose points:

1.I teach some parts of what you presented above

2.I try to show how much can be covered by three steps only

3.I generally insist that a first step should be the biggest one

4.I do NOT fully understand your phrase "get the left brain out of the way"-
at least I do NOT understand practical implications

5.Did u get any response to your post
http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...hp?t=2&page=55 post #649 ?


julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

[uspta990770809]

For Julian

Don,
couple of loose points:

1.I teach some parts of what you presented above

2.I try to show how much can be covered by three steps only

3.I generally insist that a first step should be the biggest one

4.I do NOT fully understand your phrase "get the left brain out of the way"-
at least I do NOT understand practical implications

5.Did u get any response to your post
http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin...hp?t=2&page=55 post #649 ?


julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

1 & 2: Great, but remember I said that that was my preferred footwork. Everyone kind of finds their own way. If they really can't get it, then I give them more information. Not really sure if I'm helping or hurting that way half the time.

3. The first step is really the "stab step" or the step just after landing on the opposite foot (of the direction you are going) coming out of the "float" or "split-step". That step is usually pretty short. The next crossover step is a spring off that foot and should be the big one. Unless you are just moving for adjustment.

4. "Getting the left brain out of the way" is really a colloquialism for not thinking about too many things when you are trying to execute a complex task like hitting a tennis ball under pressure at full speed. You can't do it deliberately. You have to trust your strokes and your training and just execute. If you run through a litany of "racket back, keep the face vertical/slightly closed, drop the head below the ball, keep the strings on the ball, keep your wrist neutral/ don't snap it, follow through to the target, touch your left ear with the back of your right hand, get your head out of your..." I don't believe in the Inner Game theory without some training and work to develop strokes. It's an oversimplification. But once you have developed the stroke, the Inner Game approach is priceless. That "Inner Game Approach" is more "Right brained".

5. No I never really got any response.

[uspta146749877]

For Don

Don,
Couple of other loose ends to think before sleep

1.next point to see is that a footwork for a running forehand influences a mechanics of a running forehand.
It is NOT obvious that a mechanics of a running forehand is "unique"
See

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/footwork/david_bailey/contact_move/power_move/power_move.html

2.a return of serve has a footwork of its own because time limitations
so for example what you call a stab step maybe eliminated IMHO.

3.balls landing ,say,two yards inside of a court impose a footwork of its own-
at least IMHO

4.related to #3- an approach shot/serve and volley may have a footwork of its own
( I will try to expand this thought Monday)

5.see as well a scenario of a server landing DEEP inside of a court
and coming south to a baseline


Practically all these points are addressed directly or indirectly in articles of Bailey.
Now I am waiting to be eaten alive by other coaches.
Sayonara


julian mielniczuk
Bedford,MA
uspta pro 27873

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net

[10splayer]

It is very interesting stuff. On the surface it looks really great and like every HP player is going to have to master all of these steps. On the other hand, it is a lot of work to develop strategies for what to do when you don't get into proper position in the first place. I think 90 to 95% of the time, my players are in trouble because they were late getting into position to hit the ball the way they were capable of hitting it. I'm not sure I want to give them a strategy and footwork pattern to justify them getting there late. If a player has trouble developing defensive footwork skills, something like Bailey's method makes a lot of sense. But I don't think players work enough on getting into great position to hit the ball in the first place.

Even at the top level, it is amazing how set these players get to hit the ball. Now against JMdP, Roger was hitting a lot of balls on the run and he couldn't control the point like he usually does. Even Rafa, who runs down more balls than almost anyone, is amazingly set when he actually hits the ball except in the most extreme circumstances.

I think we should be working harder to get players to explode quicker and more effectively in their first steps so they don't have to run wider than their shot and are set to load and fire on the majority of their shots.

But as I said, the stuff looks really interesting. I haven't studied it enough. But I want to let the talented players figure their natural footwork out on their own,

guided by an awareness of the relationship of the racket head to the ball as they move towards the shot

. I wonder if the players that need to be shown exactly what to do in these alternate situations should even be trying anything but a totally defensive shot in the situation.

What experience do other pros have working with the Bailey Method?

don

Totally agree. I have two rules on my court in regards to footwork. (At least initially)

1.Always establish "position on the ball" with the rear leg.

2.Never, ever,ever,ever allow pre-ordained footwork patterns, or stance permutations, to interfere with the the movement of the racquet thru the hitting zone and proper impact position. My feeling is that when students, develope the kinesthetic feel of "defending their contact point" they figure out ways to achieve this, footwork wise. Even if it's not perfect. Just think it's so important to establish this conept of contact point first, in regards to footwork, and then build from there. So no, I would never start out with any "method of movement" but would certainly use Bailey's ideas later in developement to refine, and maximize movement efficiency.

[uspta146749877]

For Don-the Bailey Method

see a smaill video
at

http://www.thebaileymethod.com/

[uspta990770809]

see a smaill video
at
http://www.thebaileymethod.com/

As I said before, I really like a lot of what I've seen of Bailey's stuff. But my philosophy of footwork is much closer to what he says on his "Closed Backhand Pivot", that the pivot (front in this case) stays on the ground and the trailing leg doesn't come around until the swing is completed.

Bailey needs to have someone go through a couple of Major Final or Semifinal matches and chart every stroke and see what percentage of the time each of his "15 moves" were used. This is a heavy stress condition where even the best players in the world are pushed to use footwork they might not have to use in the first week of a slam. Let's see how much time they actually hit the ball with their feet moving or in the air or jumping into the shot. I think when JMdP hit those huge forehands he was pretty well classically planted on the ground. I'll have to go back and look. I don't have the resources to check this out, but maybe Bailey and his mass marketed system do (I'm getting a lot of e-mails from him lately).

I tend to be very old-fashioned. I don't even believe you move into a volley with your weight unless you have to. Fact is, most of the time, you have to. But preferably, I want to have my foot down and my weight transfered before I contact the ball, just like on any other shot...preferably. To me the movement foreward is motivated by preferred positioning rather than by wanting to jump into the volley. To see really good volleying technique, you have to study the best doubles players, like the Bryans or Nestor or Knowles, and you have to study them in a quick exchange or making a tough volley off a sharp return to see the kind of technique mortal men should be using.

Swinging volleys: a necessity for today's player, but not necessarily at the expense of the ability to make a decent normal volley, drive volley, or perhaps a bent knee overhead. The development of those shots has suffered in the desire to develop the more "exciting" swing volley. I don't think you can execute the swing volley effectively when you are transitioning under pressure, but you can make the drive volley and get to the net effectively. At least you could if you had the shot, but most of today's players don't have that shot.

If you watch the best of the pros play, it is amazing how well they set up to hit balls that don't really have them on the run, especially the women. That's a lot of what set Agassi apart. Rafa clearly sets his feet unless you hit a winner he steals back with his speed. JMdP uses his reach to set up whenever he can and shrink the court.

All of these "15 moves" are probably necessary for a complete game, but I don't know if I have time to teach many of my students that many moves. I'm usually fighting to get them to listen to me when I want them to learn move number 1: a basic skip and plant to the side to handle a wide ball with an open stance and quick recovery. I think I'm pretty good at doing the "Arthur Murray dance school" breakdown to get them started, but it's not an easy sell. Even after they find out that I am right and they can execute the shot much better. I want them to go back and practice the footwork dry with me and, invariably, they don't want to do it. I've even given students tapes of Fred Astaire. I mean, where is Bob Fosse when you need him? (Probably half the readers of this post don't even know who Fred Astair is, much less Bob Fosse.)

Remember, I have one of the greatest advantages a pro could have, in the Global Tennis Teaching System. With my machines, I can create an exact situation I want the student to practice. Start easy and gradually make it harder and quicker. Still, it is very hard to teach footwork. So I will definitely look closer at Bailey's demos and articles and see if I want to commit to use his system. But I remain pretty much a skeptic as far as the idea that there are "15 moves" to learn. I think you start by learning far fewer basic approaches to the ball, but in the end, with those basic principles of movement, there are almost infinite moves to the ball.

And I really like the video.
don

[llll]

i am intrigued and actually just bought the bailey method (havent received it yet) my take before actually going thru it is it will be another form of footwork drills. shadow footwork in a way. getting muscle memory into certain sequences. i dont expect to try to play this way ok ball is there footwork pattern #12 here i go. but the ball is there i naturally go into footwork pattern #12(cause thats the best way to get there (right brain decision not left brain) and from doing the bailey drills im more effecient at executing the sequence. no different than a typical ball drill like short ball hit target down the line corner. come foward split step hit volley winner

[uspta146749877]

For iiii

See

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=284662

as well

[airforce1]

i am intrigued and actually just bought the bailey method (havent received it yet) my take before actually going thru it is it will be another form of footwork drills. shadow footwork in a way. getting muscle memory into certain sequences. i dont expect to try to play this way ok ball is there footwork pattern #12 here i go. but the ball is there i naturally go into footwork pattern #12(cause thats the best way to get there (right brain decision not left brain) and from doing the bailey drills im more effecient at executing the sequence. no different than a typical ball drill like short ball hit target down the line corner. come foward split step hit volley winner

right on explanation, except hitting thru the target line, haha.

[uspta146749877]

For Don

----> your quote
Bailey needs to have someone go through a couple of Major Final or Semifinal matches and chart every stroke and see what percentage of the time each of his "15 moves" were used.

A quote from John Yandell about Bailey
---->
David Bailey is a native Australian who has spent 15 years studying tennis at the professional level. He has developed a new language for one of the most complex and misunderstood aspects of the game, footwork and court movement. David has worked with world class players and coaches, national tennis associations and top academies, and has presented at coaching seminars around the world. His teaching system, the Bailey Method, has become a regular part of the coaching curriculum at the Nick Bollettierri Tennis Academy, where it is personally endorsed by Nick.
A comment by Julian

----> USPTA NEW England will have a presentation entiled "The Bailey Method"