painless serve

[hansen]

i come back after a rotator cuff injury and to prevent future damage i decided to remodel my service motion. i have read all the articles about the service but it is difficult to keep the overview.
so my question is, which are the key elements of the service motion who prevent rotator cuff injuries respectively which elements relief the shoulder ?
(is McEnroe a good model for a effortless serve, and is sampras elbow bend right after contact a possibility to reduce the force on the shoulder?)

p.s. i do strengthening exercices for my shoulder and my ntrp rating is 5.5

and sorry for my bad english im from europe

Thanks in advance

[johnyandell]

I don't think anyone can say for sure about technique and injuries. You see players with great technique hurt and vice versa. Sure don't think the Sampras elbow thing is a good idea however.

I like the Philippoussis Federer style backswing myself. You have to stay very relaxed though, no matter what.

The only article on the site that deals with this is:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/physicaltraining/scott_riewald/preventing_serving_injuries/preventing_serving_injuries.html

If I was in your position I would want to talk to a physical therapist.

[CraigC]

Possible solutions

I have a terrible rotator from years of pitching, serving and passing footballs. I completely agree with John that the high elbow of Sampras will be tough.
If the shoulder is healed, obviously there is no threat. However, if it's still vulnerable, here is what I've done. (This also assumes you are staying at the 5.5 level and not going on tour) Shift your grip over to a little more eastern than continental. This will help you flatten out the serve and reduce pronation. It will NOT help you with spin, but you'll still hit with decent power and take some strain off that shoulder. Second, work hard on increasing your upper body rotation and leg drive, as those components will allow you to "use less arm" in the serve. I'd also put your ball toss slightly further into the court, hoping to get a little more from your body leaning on the ball.
As for the kick, you'll have to shift back to the continental or even further, so work on driving that right hip and those core muscles into the serve, and get a little more aggressive with your hand at contact.
Not sure where your tear is, but for me, the slice is the one that hurts the most. It's closer to throwing a curve ball than the other strokes so I've compensated this way. I switch to a continental grip, keep the racket on edge, and hit straight through the ball as if I was serving straight. Although it lacks power, it does give me decent spin and I've learned to control the angle pretty well.
I can still produce low 120's on the flat serve and I can barely keep my arm up over my head long enough to keep my great hair styled well!! (haha)
Hope that helps a little.
CC

[johnyandell]

The hair I feel is still making a statement.

[CraigC]

Dear smartass!

Do I say Touche or Tupee to that?

[tcuk]

I had a rotator cuff problem a few years ago. There is nothing you can do other than NOT serve. You can do everything else from around chest level down: groundstokes, volleys, etc. Anything played above shoulder level is going to hurt and extend the injury. This is a problem that will never get better if you insist on playing thru it.

In the end I stopped all overhead type activity when playing tennis. After 6 months the problem was cured and never returned. Yes, it takes that long!

No tweaking with your service action will help, I tried every tweak possible, nothing worked.

Sorry to deliver pessimistic news, but it's the truth.

[hansen]

the slice serve hurts me the most too. i had this shoulder problems in the past too and paused for half a year. in the past the pain occured at the moment of ball contact but after a pain free period i decided to serve at full speed because there was no pain during serving, but a few days later i had pain, so maybe this time the shoulder was simply overburdened and there was actually nothing wrong. i think that trough the inflammation in the past the shoulder is more sensible because of the plasticity of the nociceptor structures and that pain occurs even when theres no harm to the shoulder.

[johnyandell]

Craig,
I'm hoping it's the former...
JY

[CraigC]

hmmph

Ah, you and your "off the coif" comments.

[airforce1]

i come back after a rotator cuff injury and to prevent future damage i decided to remodel my service motion. i have read all the articles about the service but it is difficult to keep the overview.
so my question is, which are the key elements of the service motion who prevent rotator cuff injuries respectively which elements relief the shoulder ?
(is McEnroe a good model for a effortless serve, and is sampras elbow bend right after contact a possibility to reduce the force on the shoulder?)

p.s. i do strengthening exercices for my shoulder and my ntrp rating is 5.5

and sorry for my bad english im from europe

Thanks in advance

some background-
My limited experience with avoiding serve injuries has been very good thus far. I say limited as I have not worked with hundreds of kids in a academy or anything of that nature. But that said, I have trained dozens for the last few years in the local HS along my own kids, worked with 4-5 top national Jrs on serving, as well as having a couple of jrs brought to me when having shoulder problems. I have received a fair amount of credit for developing kids with big serves, but mostly due to my on children.

I have modeled all the serve technical instruction from what I could learn from studying Sampras' serve. For me it is the gold standard in lasting form and he also was able to easily kick it up well into the 130's when he wanted. As far as protecting the shoulder, I have always made a big point of making room for the shoulder to operate unrestricted, by tilting the upper torso to the side slightly and not bringing the arm up to a vertical position over the top. This creates sort of a V using the head/neck and the upper arm, that gives the shoulder (rotator cuff) some room.

My understanding and experience in my shoulder is that the shoulder will become impinged and injure if this angle is too acute. I played HS tennis years before, but really started to study it in 92. I had separated my serving shoulder in the wt room in during college football, and struggled with it in those early years of serving. Once I learned how to create this V consistently, my shoulder began to improve immediately to the point now, I almost forget where I had to come from. I think it also helps with the pronation motion.

This is probably not a very technical explanation but it seems to work for us. Sometime the simple things can be the most helpful!
My oldest son, who has quite a monster serve, had to have a shoulder/back surgery due to a non serving injury.
Talking to the surgeon afterward, I was quite pleased upon hearing him explain that my son had no rotor cuff trauma and how amazed he was to see such a clean rotator cuff from a big server.

Question- do you carve around the ball on your slice?
hope this is helpful.

[backhand]

As far as protecting the shoulder, I have always made a big point of making room for the shoulder to operate unrestricted, by tilting the upper torso to the side slightly and not bringing the arm up to a vertical position over the top. This creates sort of a V using the head/neck and the upper arm, that gives the shoulder (rotator cuff) some room.

So contact is made at what "o'clock?" Thanks.

[sejsel]

So contact is made at what "o'clock?" Thanks.

Yes, good point. Reminds of the article from someone (might have been Bruce Elliot or that Gordon fellow) quoting one specialized surgeon on second serve and rotator cuff injuries.

[airforce1]

So contact is made at what "o'clock?" Thanks.

for a righty server, most of the pros seem to contact the toss slightly left of the left foot. I would call this about the 11:45 oclock.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andyroddick/andyroddick_serve/ar_1st_serve/ar_1st_serve.html?AR1stSDeuceFront3.mov

It's the 3rd roddick 1st serve vid.
I hope the link above works, as it shows what I was discussing on the angle created by the arm and upper torso, as well as the oclock position you ask about. It also matters greatly on flexibility, as these pros generally have a good range of motion in the upper torso. I would expect that to create this angle with less flexibility, the toss and the hitting arm need to move more right to the 1230 or 1 position to create the space (angle) as the torso is more upright.

[airforce1]

Dumb question for ya.

Do you do clock positions relative to the court or to svc target box?

Svc box makes more sense to me, but students seem to think in terms of the court I believe. Any help here?

[uspta146749877]

Video

for a righty server, most of the pros seem to contact the toss slightly left of the left foot. I would call this about the 11:45 oclock.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/andyroddick/andyroddick_serve/ar_1st_serve/ar_1st_serve.html?AR1stSDeuceFront3.mov

It's the 3rd roddick 1st serve vid.
I hope the link above works, as it shows what I was discussing on the angle created by the arm and upper torso, as well as the oclock position you ask about. It also matters greatly on flexibility, as these pros generally have a good range of motion in the upper torso. I would expect that to create this angle with less flexibility, the toss and the hitting arm need to move more right to the 1230 or 1 position to create the space (angle) as the torso is more upright.

Is a video
1st serve deuce front
or
1st serve deuce rear?

julian mielniczuk
usptapro 27873
Courtside Tennis Club,Ma,Bedford

https://www.julianmielniczuk.usptapro.com

juliantennis@comcast.net