Craig, let's start a new thread on Robert

[uspta990770809]

I love what you had to say about Robert's teaching methods. I've tried to go back and look at some of his articles again. I hear all this stuff about new strokes etc, but I just feel the basic stroke has to be ground in before you can start to play with all the other stuff. Once you can hit through the ball like the 9 y.o. Sampras in that classic forehand video (or is it 11 y.o depending on where you look, I think more likely 11), then you can start to use all the other finishes including the wiper and even the reverse. But when I see my players bailing out of a ball that is a little bit deep and going into a reverse because they didn't get there early enough or get down low enough to hit through the ball, I am all over them. Even Robert seems to say Maria is using the reverse too much of the time (it is hard to tell from the archived articles when they were written and which Maria we are talking about. I think John should consider adding an original publishing date,although I know you could find it by searching through all the past issues for the original publishing).

I don't want to introduce even the wiper until the player knows how to hit through the ball. I spend a lot of time trying to correct young kids who have been taught to finish on the left ear(forehand) or right ear(2-handed backhand -rightys). It's better than a lot of things they could be doing, but it doesn't get them to hit through the ball. I saw Guga hit the ball when he was at the top. There was a difference between his ball and almost everyone else's at the time. He went through the ball and hit it absolutely huge. There was that extension John went into in that article on extension on rotation a couple of months ago. If indeed Guga learned that forehand by bringing the back of his right hand to his left ear, how did he learn to hit through the ball so visciously? I think he probably started with something more like Robert's extension and eventually found he had to add more topspin and adapted to the wiper type of shot when he got stronger and already know how to hit through the ball.

So the question is, how solid do I need to see that "Lansdorp Drive" (2 feet over the net to within 4 feet of both lines in the corner with some pretty good topspin) before I allow the kid to start to monkey around with what he sees all the pros doing? I hold them off as long as I can.

Hope I get some responses on this one.
Just about the tennis please!
don brosseau

[airforce1]

I brought the wwiper into my game as a way of maximizing hitting thru the ball while still getting excellent topspin. While I wouldn't intro it to a brand new beginner, I would expect most hard hitting jrs. to master it pretty quick.

Seems the analogy of hitting a carving serve or a pronating serve for spin works here. I would want a student to go with the more advanced strokes as soon as they are ready, but then again, I view the wwiper as a power stroke that doesn't sacrifice power as much the traditional stroke when adding big spin.

I'm always a little surprised when I see the Wwiper associated with not hitting thru the ball. Is this the experience for most instructors; that it used to just spin the ball?

[uspta990770809]

I brought the wwiper into my game as a way of maximizing hitting thru the ball while still getting excellent topspin. While I wouldn't intro it to a brand new beginner, I would expect most hard hitting jrs. to master it pretty quick.

Seems the analogy of hitting a carving serve or a pronating serve for spin works here. I would want a student to go with the more advanced strokes as soon as they are ready, but then again, I view the wwiper as a power stroke that doesn't sacrifice power as much the traditional stroke when adding big spin.

I'm always a little surprised when I see the Wwiper associated with not hitting thru the ball. Is this the experience for most instructors; that it used to just spin the ball?

I find myself fighting against the prevalence of this stroke without the ability to hit through the ball. This is especially true of the kids under 12 who are still dealing with a lot of balls well above their heads. They can hit with topsin, but they can't really drive through the ball, especially if the ball comes into them with a little pace.

The older ones can hit a little harder, but they mostly hit inefficiently and do not have the ability to hit that driving topspin ball that you see from a Federer or even a Nadal, especially when you consider it relative to a more parabolic shape like a Harold Solomon topspin (showing my age a little here). Nice for security, but not going to cut it beyond the 12s in today's game.

Players need to be able to stand toe to toe and exchange blows without feeling like they are playing figureative Russian roulette when they answer a drive with a drive. The wiper is great for defending and certainly, in a developed player, a great way to hit speed and spin, but I really wonder how long I need to keep that young player hitting 90 to 95% of his shots with the classic drive until he/she really has a true feel for hitting through the ball.

don

[CraigC]

Don

Don,
Here are a few things I've had great success with. I also start with having kids hit through the ball until they can hit the back fence on a line drive, but this only lasts until they are 5 or 6 years old. Then, I have the player hit the ball such that it bounces in the court and goes above a line halfway up the back fence. This will ensure depth, drive, and heaviness. After that, I ask them to try to hit the ball in the court and make sure that it is still rising by the time it hits the back fence. This progression seems to force the various finishes. The drive makes them finish higher and with longer strokes, while the excessive spin required to get the ball to jump up the fence makes them convert to the windshield. Finally, the third drill combines both techniques and ends up producing something pretty close to the modern forehand. Obviously your coaching knowledge will offer the appropriate modifications, but these drills will get them close on their own. Hope that helps.

CC

[uspta990770809]

Don,
Here are a few things I've had great success with. I also start with having kids hit through the ball until they can hit the back fence on a line drive, but this only lasts until they are 5 or 6 years old. Then, I have the player hit the ball such that it bounces in the court and goes above a line halfway up the back fence. This will ensure depth, drive, and heaviness. After that, I ask them to try to hit the ball in the court and make sure that it is still rising by the time it hits the back fence. This progression seems to force the various finishes. The drive makes them finish higher and with longer strokes, while the excessive spin required to get the ball to jump up the fence makes them convert to the windshield. Finally, the third drill combines both techniques and ends up producing something pretty close to the modern forehand. Obviously your coaching knowledge will offer the appropriate modifications, but these drills will get them close on their own. Hope that helps.

CC

I'm going to have to work with this, but if you can get 7 and 8 year olds to hit the ball so it goes in the court and bounces halfway up the fence, that's terrific. You are getting the kids earlier than I am. At that age (and my experience with kids under 9 is really limited), I'm struggling to get them to hold on to the racket.

Thanks for the great ideas.
don